EV`s use more tires

[deleriumtremor]

Legit question outside of the battery a normal car still needs significant raw materials to make. Let's not pretend it's not an only BEV problem. There is no denying what that quote has merit not to mention the grid is woefully under prepared. We do need to start somewhere. That's why there are choices.

I am a little unclear what you were saying?

But it is late, so probably me.

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[Jason B]

I am a little unclear what you were saying?

But it is late, so probably me.

I think he is saying that it takes lots of energy and raw materials, things created be petroleum products to make any vehicle, whether ICE or EV. EV are good at reducing carbon footprint only at consumer usage. You are not adding CO2 to the atmosphere when driving an EV to the levels of driving an ICE. But don't kid yourself into thing EV's are 'carbon free' or 'carbon neutral'. That electricity to charge the batteries is likely to come from power plants run on fossil fuels.

As Motorpsycholgy stated, the goal of EV's is to reduce CO2 emissions. It's not here to completely eliminate it.

 

[deleriumtremor]

I think he is saying that it takes lots of energy and raw materials, things created be petroleum products to make any vehicle, whether ICE or EV. EV are good at reducing carbon footprint only at consumer usage. You are not adding CO2 to the atmosphere when driving an EV to the levels of driving an ICE. But don't kid yourself into thing EV's are 'carbon free' or 'carbon neutral'. That electricity to charge the batteries is likely to come from power plants run on fossil fuels.

As Motorpsycholgy stated, the goal of EV's is to reduce CO2 emissions. It's not here to completely eliminate it.

At the risk of getting into second derivative speculation on what we were all saying, I think the root of my confusion was ironically my post about my FIL’s findings, I was clearly less than clear.

His analysis went beyond the relative CO2 produced during production. His was a total life cycle study of CO2 produced by both vehicles from raw materials produced to the scrap heap.

But of course, anytime your are talking these kinds of analysis, it is a moving target. His study happened just after Tesla started producing the big sedan and how energy was being produced, the efficiency of all the steps along the way, have changed significantly.

When he did his study solar panels were still using more energy to be produced than they would likely generate in the life. That number has changed significantly, although like anything in this highly politicized subject, the real numbers are all over the map, based on whose experts got paid for what study.

But I have to say, even with new numbers to start with, he gets pretty indignant when he spots hyperbole and purposeful obfuscation, seems he gets pretty indignant a lot.

The most interesting thing for me is it hasn’t affected his political point of view a bit. That appears to be more religion than science.

 

[aeroshots]

Plus, pretty much everyone has their mind made up anyway.

Yes! Another divider as planned.

 

[wanted33]

Just more carcasses for our landfills

Maybe they can be recycled at all of the EV battery recycling centers we have around the country.

See what I did there Rick?

BTW, since we're on one of "those discussions". What oil should I run in my Ranger, do I need a catch can, and what gas is best. I won't go into the need of a tailgate damper. That just divides everyone into 2 camps.......

 

[Trigganometry]

Maybe they can be recycled at all of the EV battery recycling centers we have around the country.

See what I did there Rick?

BTW, since we're on one of "those discussions". What oil should I run in my Ranger, do I need a catch can, and what gas is best. I won't go into the need of a tailgate damper. That just divides everyone into 2 camps.......

I suppose what ever the wife tells ya! You’re safe with that ?

 

[KNI]

Seems that EVs and green tech are not the solution.

https://www.gtk.fi/en/time-to-wake-up/

Options? - Stock up SpaceX and go space mining for raw materials.

 

[Trigganometry]

Seems that EVs and green tech are not the solution.

https://www.gtk.fi/en/time-to-wake-up/

Options? - Stock up SpaceX and go space mining for raw materials.

Timing of this post is epic! I was talking to one of my associates today about the renewable craze. He agrees the finite resources to think of doing this are not even there to get. Even if there were the damage to the planet would be irreversible. He mentioned if fusion became a possibility and some new form of energy storage became available then it might work. But as he continued it’s really not us that have to worry about that. With the current trajectory there is no feasible way to make the deadlines being dictated. Then he laughs and says, you know all these protesters and diversity zealots out there. Well it’s really up to them to figure it out or die trying. We’re all going to be long gone by then. Eventually he said energy will be rationed along with food in the utopian society they so desperately think is the answer to all their problems.

Sounds like hell to me!

 

[deleriumtremor]

Seems that EVs and green tech are not the solution.

https://www.gtk.fi/en/time-to-wake-up/

Options? - Stock up SpaceX and go space mining for raw materials.

I suspect the good professor isn’t the only one to understand this reality.

JB Straubel was one of the early guys at Tesla. He left Tesla to found Redwood Materials which initially was focused on the development of processes to cost effectively recycle Li-ion battery packs.

I followed his activities on and off, because he is the kind of guy that if anyone can make it work, it likely will be someone like him. In addition, he knows just about everyone who might have enough scratch laying around looking for a home, if he were to stumble here and there, to be able to fund him over the bumps.

A while back they broke ground in NV near the Tesla Gigafactory on a factory dedicated to the recycle of battery packs as well as the supply of newly mined materials for the manufacture of battery packs.

The really interesting addition to their website messaging is the focus on the recycle of the anode and cathode materials (the expensive metals) and little in the way of the recycle of the lithium itself.

It would appear JB and his investors have pivoted slightly and perhaps decided to follow the money, versus saving the earth from the ravages of Lithium mining.

In any case, it does look like there are a lot of pretty smart people that stand to make a lot of money producing (through recycling) the rarer bits that make up these batteries.

Maybe it won’t matter in the end though, if the author of the article that triggered this thread is right and all those scientists who are working on making lighter and longer lasting batteries, finally come through.

 

[deleriumtremor]

Timing of this post is epic! I was talking to one of my associates today about the renewable craze. He agrees the finite resources to think of doing this are not even there to get. Even if there were the damage to the planet would be irreversible. He mentioned if fusion became a possibility and some new form of energy storage became available then it might work. But as he continued it’s really not us that have to worry about that. With the current trajectory there is no feasible way to make the deadlines being dictated. Then he laughs and says, you know all these protesters and diversity zealots out there. Well it’s really up to them to figure it out or die trying. We’re all going to be long gone by then. Eventually he said energy will be rationed along with food in the utopian society they so desperately think is the answer to all their problems.

Sounds like hell to me!

Anyone who doubts Rick’s associates viewpoint only need to travel to Germany and ask around how their cart before the horse Green movement worked out.

Who needs a plan, when you have right on your side? It must drive Angela crazy to realize her legacy is totally out of her control.

 

[Jason B]

It would appear JB and his investors have pivoted slightly and perhaps decided to follow the money, versus saving the earth from the ravages of Lithium mining.

In any case, it does look like there are a lot of pretty smart people that stand to make a lot of money producing (through recycling) the rarer bits that make up these batteries.

Maybe it won’t matter in the end though, if the author of the article that triggered this thread is right and all those scientists who are working on making lighter and longer lasting batteries, finally come through.

EV's and green energy were never about saving the earth. It's about moving cash flow from fossil fuels to renewable. And when renewables become a real threat to fossil fuels, guess where the oil companies will put their money?

 

[deleriumtremor]

EV's and green energy were never about saving the earth. It's about moving cash flow from fossil fuels to renewable. And when renewables become a real threat to fossil fuels, guess where the oil companies will put their money?

I wouldn't be saying that out loud.

"The definition of "crying FIRE! in a crowded theater" seems to be moving around lately.

 

[Motorpsychology]

EV's and green energy were never about saving the earth. It's about moving cash flow from fossil fuels to renewable. And when renewables become a real threat to fossil fuels, guess where the oil companies will put their money?

They are at least dipping their corporate toes in the water. A couple examples, good reads:
Chevron.
BP.

 

[deleriumtremor]

They are at least dipping their corporate toes in the water. A couple examples, good reads:
Chevron.
BP.

It probably doesn’t matter what the rationale, I am fairly certain the current focus the oil majors have on trying to get a lasso around carbon emissions is the ESG investing movement.

Engine 1 made a pretty big impression at Exxon.

 

[Squatchranger]

Ok my EV donation for the day! It’s also 500,000 gallons of water to make those 2 batteries

Don't forget about the mining and pollution from that the transporting of the raw materials to factories that create tons of pollution the processing which creates toxic waste byproducts then they get transported somewhere else built and shipped, also where do people think the electricity comes from? We stupidly axed a lot of nuclear power cause of fear mongering morons so it comes again from gas.

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