APG kit vs new Ranger Raptor

[Superdannyboy]

No shock and leaf combination will beat a coilover and link true pre-runner set up....Back in the late 80's I had a wanna be pre-runner, that was jump capable with double shocks on all 4 corners , a custom rear leaf pack by National Springs , in bed cross supports, full roll cage, 5 point harness from fighter jet . After a ride in my son in laws race truck with a coilover link setup last Sept there was no comparison .....

.Super Danny is alot like me and the crew I ran with back in the day.?.

That sounds like a legit prerunner.

Ford's R&D on the Raptor will be leagues better than aftermarket.

OEMs always have to operate within certain limits, warranty, durability and reliability, low maintenance, works in any climate, cost, government restrictions, emissions, fuel economy, etc.

Aftermarket can skirt most of these, but the Raptor is such a well designed, engineered and tested package.

Heck yea. I would definitely love to work on the RR team as a manufacturing engineer. You're right, the mechanical engineers have to be able to account for a factor of safety on each mechanical component and determine a set number of cycles each product should last through and how it'll all work together as a system.

Of course, aftermarket shops have rockstars and super technical people working there that have been building trucks and making them rigid and built to last, but come on Ford has deep pockets to spend on R&D.

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[Whiplash]

Ford's R&D on the Raptor will be leagues better than aftermarket.

OEMs always have to operate within certain limits, warranty, durability and reliability, low maintenance, works in any climate, cost, government restrictions, emissions, fuel economy, etc.

Aftermarket can skirt most of these, but the Raptor is such a well designed, engineered and tested package.

I agree to a certain point...there are custom fabricators doing luxury pre-runners that cost 100k"s that no OEM can touch...but they are not street legal....

 

[Superdannyboy]

I agree to a certain point...there are custom fabricators doing luxury pre-runners that cost 100k"s that no OEM can touch...but they are not street legal....

Hey I was surprised with the desert runner bronco.

 

[Whiplash]

Hey I was surprised with the desert runner bronco.

Yep....Coilover and link suspension...

 

[Whiplash]

You think the APG/Deaver rear leafs are better than a coil spring rear suspension?

I have taken my current Ranger about as far as you can go with a leaf and shock bolt on set up....

 

[Superdannyboy]

I have taken my current Ranger about as far as you can go with a leaf and shock bolt on set up....

Is that an aftermarket fender liner?

 

[Whiplash]

S

Is that an aftermarket fender liner?

Stock 2021 , I have none of the body, or fender modifications you have done.....

 

[Superdannyboy]

S

Stock 2021 , I have none of the body, or fender modifications you have done.....

Ahh, dumb haha. Truck looks great ?

 

[imapseudonym]

Thanks for all the additional comments

 

[Yama_Ranger]

I know. this thread is fairly old now but I happened upon it and thought I'd chime in as the rare owner of an APG built Ranger. FWIW, I came out of an F150 Raptor and have owned quite a few high performance vehicles and am quite into suspension as I race Moto and MTB...

No doubt the Raptor Ranger will be a cool truck. You'll. need a tune, down pipe, and exhaust at minimum on the current gen to hang with the Raptor. The Raptor is also slated to get a much. stronger front diff with locker (our current front diff cannot handle a locker). Glossing over many other points like aesthetics, interior refinements, etc, that brings us to the rear suspension. No doubt that the 4-link will out perform leaf springs if your focus is entirely on going. as fast as you can over rough terrain with very, very little payload capacity. It's incredibly unlikely that the payload for the Raptor ranger will be greater than what is required to hold 4 adults and a cooler.

The APG Pro-Runner on the other hand, well for one, is available now as long as. you can find a suitable donor vehicle. The carbon fiber body work that APG turns out is beyond anything that Ford will build in terms of radical appearance and weight savings measures. If you're someone that want's a wild looking and fairly unique truck, the APG rig is the call. There will be Ranger Raptors everywhere in short order.

Between the carbon fenders, bedsides, and alloy bumpers, ProRunner on 35's weighs about the same as stock Ranger. Basically, that means your 1300 lb payload. is retained. Suspension wise, I have the full long travel setup up front with APG's Deaver-built HD progressive leaf springs out back. I'm running a GFC on the bed and am building it out with a light weight camping setup thus the need for HD springs. My goal for the truck is to handle 1300-1500 of payload and be quite capable at high speeds in Baja, etc. This will be exceedingly. hard to do with the 4-link Raptor Ranger without completely ruining the rear-end suspension performance. Airbags can work for highway. trucks but off-road performance will suffer to the point of erasing any performance advantage of coils (been there, done that. twice). If you're goal is payload, the current get or a non-Raptor platform will the be better starting point.

Caveats to the APG truck? There are still no gears available for our current generation trucks and the front diff is weak sauce. There's a Dana Adantek front diff on the way that will solve those problems but we're still waiting. The brakes also suck, especially under the weight of the 35's. Alcon has a kit for that, I need to get that done at some point. Naturally, there's the whole process of getting your truck to SoCal and coming up with folding cash for the work. The APG crew is a great bunch and have been helpful to me over the phone but should I need their hands-on expertise, I'll have to get my truck back to SoCal. That could be non-trivial for some. I'm fairly handy and it would take something major going wrong for that to be a factor for me. YMMV

On pricing, both trucks can be pretty expensive projects. In theory. you could do an APG built Ranger for somewhere in the $50k range but $80k is more realistic. So, probably a wash there.
Mine is pretty. loaded up, lots of Baja Designs lights, warn winch, King shocks, RCV axles, Fiteen52 wheels, 35" Ridge Grapplers, rock sliders, etc, etc. These are passions projects, not budget trucks. There will be ADM on many/most of the Ranger Raptors until supply chain works out. Whatever you choose, prepare to part with a lot of money. Another point regarding the Raptor, having owned the F150 version. The factory trucks are nice but there are tons of cost cutting measures all over them and many wind up spending a ton more on mods on top of the factory truck. The APG build cuts right tho the chase and you wind up with all the goodies that you'd want on top of a stock Raptor. Lights, upgraded shocks, winch, etc. So factor that in to your $$ calculations.

In the end, the APG truck is the right option for me today but maybe not for you. I'm sure I'll be envious of that TT 2.7, beefy front diff, and some of the other cool features of the RR in time . Either truck is going to be cool as hell.

 

[Superdannyboy]

I know. this thread is fairly old now but I happened upon it and thought I'd chime in as the rare owner of an APG built Ranger. FWIW, I came out of an F150 Raptor and have owned quite a few high performance vehicles and am quite into suspension as I race Moto and MTB...

No doubt the Raptor Ranger will be a cool truck. You'll. need a tune, down pipe, and exhaust at minimum on the current gen to hang with the Raptor. The Raptor is also slated to get a much. stronger front diff with locker (our current front diff cannot handle a locker). Glossing over many other points like aesthetics, interior refinements, etc, that brings us to the rear suspension. No doubt that the 4-link will out perform leaf springs if your focus is entirely on going. as fast as you can over rough terrain with very, very little payload capacity. It's incredibly unlikely that the payload for the Raptor ranger will be greater than what is required to hold 4 adults and a cooler.

The APG Pro-Runner on the other hand, well for one, is available now as long as. you can find a suitable donor vehicle. The carbon fiber body work that APG turns out is beyond anything that Ford will build in terms of radical appearance and weight savings measures. If you're someone that want's a wild looking and fairly unique truck, the APG rig is the call. There will be Ranger Raptors everywhere in short order.

Between the carbon fenders, bedsides, and alloy bumpers, ProRunner on 35's weighs about the same as stock Ranger. Basically, that means your 1300 lb payload. is retained. Suspension wise, I have the full long travel setup up front with APG's Deaver-built HD progressive leaf springs out back. I'm running a GFC on the bed and am building it out with a light weight camping setup thus the need for HD springs. My goal for the truck is to handle 1300-1500 of payload and be quite capable at high speeds in Baja, etc. This will be exceedingly. hard to do with the 4-link Raptor Ranger without completely ruining the rear-end suspension performance. Airbags can work for highway. trucks but off-road performance will suffer to the point of erasing any performance advantage of coils (been there, done that. twice). If you're goal is payload, the current get or a non-Raptor platform will the be better starting point.

Caveats to the APG truck? There are still no gears available for our current generation trucks and the front diff is weak sauce. There's a Dana Adantek front diff on the way that will solve those problems but we're still waiting. The brakes also suck, especially under the weight of the 35's. Alcon has a kit for that, I need to get that done at some point. Naturally, there's the whole process of getting your truck to SoCal and coming up with folding cash for the work. The APG crew is a great bunch and have been helpful to me over the phone but should I need their hands-on expertise, I'll have to get my truck back to SoCal. That could be non-trivial for some. I'm fairly handy and it would take something major going wrong for that to be a factor for me. YMMV

On pricing, both trucks can be pretty expensive projects. In theory. you could do an APG built Ranger for somewhere in the $50k range but $80k is more realistic. So, probably a wash there.
Mine is pretty. loaded up, lots of Baja Designs lights, warn winch, King shocks, RCV axles, Fiteen52 wheels, 35" Ridge Grapplers, rock sliders, etc, etc. These are passions projects, not budget trucks. There will be ADM on many/most of the Ranger Raptors until supply chain works out. Whatever you choose, prepare to part with a lot of money. Another point regarding the Raptor, having owned the F150 version. The factory trucks are nice but there are tons of cost cutting measures all over them and many wind up spending a ton more on mods on top of the factory truck. The APG build cuts right tho the chase and you wind up with all the goodies that you'd want on top of a stock Raptor. Lights, upgraded shocks, winch, etc. So factor that in to your $$ calculations.

In the end, the APG truck is the right option for me today but maybe not for you. I'm sure I'll be envious of that TT 2.7, beefy front diff, and some of the other cool features of the RR in time . Either truck is going to be cool as hell.

Superdannyboy here,

Thanks for your input on this from not only owning an APG Ranger, but also from owning a Gen 1 or Gen 2 raptor. You bring some great points like payload which is a factor and I would honestly think that more people would choose the payload over a 4 link rear. I think in the end the decision is between having one truck that can do it all versus a fun toy and a work truck. I've decided not to link my ranger this coming year and instead build a 2003 f150 by making my own long travel arms and 4 linking the rear with a engine,cab,bed cage all tied in. In theory I could even tow this with my ranger by keeping the leaf springs in the rear and use the ranger as a prerunner and the f150 as a race truck.

Building a long travel current ranger is definitely fun but I'm sure the new raptor ranger will be more fun.

You brought up gears which is a good point and I'd like to add to that with the current Gen not having a limited slip. Going wide body and long travel up front means the best bet for the rear is an f150 rear axle which is wider with a limited slip.

The easiest option is the ranger raptor having everything configured and the electronics worked out. Going custom build with a current Gen won't be as fast and will always be almost as good unless you can fab up suspension parts like a rear 4 link with more travel than the ranger raptor and even wider arms than the apg or bajakits to achieve more travel because honestly no one has a true long travel current ranger there are mid travel kits like apg and bajakits but if you can have a true long travel current ranger than that would have a chance to beat the ranger raptor in the dirt but then the ranger raptor has more HP and torque and is AWD so phew that's gonna be alot of work to beat.

Not everyone has a competitive spirit and building a fun current Gen ranger is definitely more cheaper, unless you start with a lariat and pay today's prices for a new truck.

 

[Yama_Ranger]

Yeap, lots of options, lots of trade-offs. There's no one solution, but fortunately we have lots of great options.

Note the e-locker rear-end of the current generation is quite strong and handles the 35's with ease. The only issue is width which limits your ability to fit hydros in the rear. I'm running F150 Raptor bump stops on a stock Ranger rear with wheel spacers as per APGs spec. It's easy enough to go with a wider Currie 9" out back to eliminate the spacers and make room for hydro bump stops.

I'll likely shell out for the Advantek front diff when they actually ship and do Alcons at the same time but I'm on the fence regarding the rear upgrade. I don't feel the need. When it's time to push that hard and go that fast, I have much more fun on my dirt bike.

Performance aside, for most folks, they just want a cool looking truck with a bit of exclusivity. For as much respect and love as I have for Ford's Raptor series, the aesthetics that APG achieved are in another league. George at APG has an incredible eye for style and in the flesh, the APG ProRunner parked next to a Raptor makes the Raptor look positively ordinary. Certainly, that's my opinion but one shared by nearly everyone who has seen my truck in person. Pics just don't do it justice.

 

[Superdannyboy]

Yeap, lots of options, lots of trade-offs. There's no one solution, but fortunately we have lots of great options.

Note the e-locker rear-end of the current generation is quite strong and handles the 35's with ease. The only issue is width which limits your ability to fit hydros in the rear. I'm running F150 Raptor bump stops on a stock Ranger rear with wheel spacers as per APGs spec. It's easy enough to go with a wider Currie 9" out back to eliminate the spacers and make room for hydro bump stops.

I'll likely shell out for the Advantek front diff when they actually ship and do Alcons at the same time but I'm on the fence regarding the rear upgrade. I don't feel the need. When it's time to push that hard and go that fast, I have much more fun on my dirt bike.

Performance aside, for most folks, they just want a cool looking truck with a bit of exclusivity. For as much respect and love as I have for Ford's Raptor series, the aesthetics that APG achieved are in another league. George at APG has an incredible eye for style and in the flesh, the APG ProRunner parked next to a Raptor makes the Raptor look positively ordinary. Certainly, that's my opinion but one shared by nearly everyone who has seen my truck in person. Pics just don't do it justice.

Yea elockers are cool but I would like mine not to shut off at a certain speed.

Personally, when I saw the APG Ranger come out I watched that YouTube video over and over and over with the blue truck in the dirt with the widebody I couldn't believe my eyes. I wanted it so freaking bad. I had no experience with building any vehicle and living in Texas I never heard or saw any prerunners only 4x4 trucks no matter the size or whatever.

I decided to go with the bajakits arms because noone had +5 arms and they used uniballs which I prefer over the stock ball joints and the lower arms have mounts for bypasses but I've learned you can tune coilovers very very well. I do with the lower coilover mounts were pushed more out to fit a 10" stroke coilover that would make it ride even better but icons do have the longest oem extended travel shocks and you can remove the spacer for more travel but the uniballs are pretty much at their 60° limits anyway and the tie rods would need a big heim joint so I think that bajakits and APG keeping the stock shock location and just extending the arms was a smart move in the end.

I heard APG saying they used a 3" billet aluminum adapters so I ordered mine from the company that makes the Bora adapters and had them hubcentric to my method rims so that I wouldn't need the hubcentric wheel rings in the rear. They are solid ?. There is enough room now with the spacers to fit trailing arms on the axle (I made some with cardboard and mocked it up already) but I would still put hydro bumps inside the frame it's too close. Going with a Currie is very expensive for most of us and then you would want new gears, axle shafts, hubs, make it full float I mean at that point 4 link it too and cut the frame and fully tube the rear. Then you gotta cage it and I mean that's why I say an f150 rear end even with the 3.73's just like ours but with a limited slip would be nice or regear it.

These custom trucks do look like nothing else I will admit.

I also paused a YouTube video going over an APG build and saw the coil springs on the front king coilovers were 700# springs so that goes to show the leverage that the longer arms have on the shocks and coils.

 

[awd.nv]

Yeap, lots of options, lots of trade-offs. There's no one solution, but fortunately we have lots of great options.

Note the e-locker rear-end of the current generation is quite strong and handles the 35's with ease. The only issue is width which limits your ability to fit hydros in the rear. I'm running F150 Raptor bump stops on a stock Ranger rear with wheel spacers as per APGs spec. It's easy enough to go with a wider Currie 9" out back to eliminate the spacers and make room for hydro bump stops.

I'll likely shell out for the Advantek front diff when they actually ship and do Alcons at the same time but I'm on the fence regarding the rear upgrade. I don't feel the need. When it's time to push that hard and go that fast, I have much more fun on my dirt bike.

Performance aside, for most folks, they just want a cool looking truck with a bit of exclusivity. For as much respect and love as I have for Ford's Raptor series, the aesthetics that APG achieved are in another league. George at APG has an incredible eye for style and in the flesh, the APG ProRunner parked next to a Raptor makes the Raptor look positively ordinary. Certainly, that's my opinion but one shared by nearly everyone who has seen my truck in person. Pics just don't do it justice.

I think at this point, the style of the APG kit is the best reason to get it over waiting for the RR. Plus I love real carbon fiber. I droll over the APG kit Rangers in photos, I hope I can see one in person some time. Actually might try to stop by their shop on my next CA visit just to say hi despite not having the cash for one.

I would have an easier time justifying the RR than the APG kit though, financially that is. I just think in photos the RR looks a bit too ordinary. Maybe in person it will look better but I think it will look funny parked next to an F150 Raptor where the APG Ranger would make any Raptor seem basic.

With the issues around the 2.7 in the Bronco, I would definitely not jump on one of the first year models unless there is without a doubt Ford fixed the 2.7 issue. Last thing I need is an engine failing when towing or in the middle of nowhere with my kids in the truck.

 

[Superdannyboy]

This is the video I watched over and over until I started buying parts.

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