140 Cleveland

[Fitzmotor]

The Cleveland confused everybody because of the massive cylinder head, at a glance you would think it was a big block, although those heads on the Boss 302 did not look as massive with the shorter deck.

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[Mokume]

Sorry Sorry you rite. Guess I was thinking of a 351M which was a BB.

The "Mary" motors (351M/400) as we would call them at the dealership I worked at were outstanding engines...as boat anchors, that is....

 

[SilverSlugger]

2.3 Stroker

 

[AdamHarris]

Two Three Stroker. I like that.

 

[NotBudule]

Two Three Stroker. I like that.

pretty sure thats the name of a porno, late 70's i believe ...

 

[RangerMarc]

The "Mary" motors (351M/400) as we would call them at the dealership I worked at were outstanding engines...as boat anchors, that is....

Had the 400 M block in my 79 Lincoln Town Coupe. It was quite the car...

 

[Mokume]

The Cleveland confused everybody because of the massive cylinder head, at a glance you would think it was a big block, although those heads on the Boss 302 did not look as massive with the shorter deck.

Ford's 351 twins were the bane of parts people worldwide when they had to ask which version the person was wanting parts for.
About the only things each engine shared in commonality, besides fasteners was the air cleaner housing and cover, carburetor, distributor, thermostat, pcv valve and air, fuel, oil filters and blue Ford engine paint.
Almost everything else was unique to each design.

 

[RangerMarc]

I'm ok with calling it the 140T.
I had the 140T in my 84 T-bird Turbo Coupe but other than the displacement I see NO comparison of the two engines. Certainly not in the turbo charger or the HP/Torque output. Ended up pulling the 140T out of the T-bird and replaced it with a 302 and a C4 trans from a Granada. It was a fun car to drive again after the transplant.

 

[Mokume]

Had the 400 M block in my 79 Lincoln Town Coupe. It was quite the car...

I was quite surprised when I raised the hoods on '79 Town Coupes/Cars and Mark V's to see a 400M 2V motor nestled where a 460 4V would normally be.

Admittedly though, the 400 did a decent job of propelling those behemoths down the road...

 

[NTXTremor]

Pontiac, Buick and Oldsmobile had only one basic block that had the same external dimensions for all displacements but the term small block and big block got applied to

I can't speak to Pontiac or Buick, but for Oldsmobile this is wrong. Sorry.

Discarding anything prior to 1964 or after 1980 or so, Oldsmobile had two families of V8 engines, the small block and big block. The small blocks started at 330ci in 1964, grew to 350ci in 1968 and maxed out at 403ci in 1977. The big blocks started in 1965 with the 425ci in large cars and the 400ci in the A-body 4-4-2. It grew to 455ci in 1968 and was phased out in 1977 when the 403ci small block was introduced.

These were different blocks with the big blocks having taller deck heights. You are correct in that Oldsmobile was very smart in designing these engines to share many parts (cams, lifters sometimes, valve train, timing gear and chain, valve covers, distributors) other than the cranks and intakes, with the latter being wider due to the taller deck height of the big blocks. You can even put big block heads on the small block for greater airflow, but you lose a lot of compression due to the larger dish in the head.

 

[Dgc333]

I can't speak to Pontiac or Buick, but for Oldsmobile this is wrong. Sorry.

Discarding anything prior to 1964 or after 1980 or so, Oldsmobile had two families of V8 engines, the small block and big block. The small blocks started at 330ci in 1964, grew to 350ci in 1968 and maxed out at 403ci in 1977. The big blocks started in 1965 with the 425ci in large cars and the 400ci in the A-body 4-4-2. It grew to 455ci in 1968 and was phased out in 1977 when the 403ci small block was introduced.

These were different blocks with the big blocks having taller deck heights. You are correct in that Oldsmobile was very smart in designing these engines to share many parts (cams, lifters sometimes, valve train, timing gear and chain, valve covers, distributors) other than the cranks and intakes, with the latter being wider due to the taller deck height of the big blocks. You can even put big block heads on the small block for greater airflow, but you lose a lot of compression due to the larger dish in the head.

As far as I know the only difference between the 330/350 and 400/455 was the deck height on an otherwise identical block architecture.

 

[NotBudule]

you got it on VHS?

Betamax...

 

[Hounddog409]

351 cleveland was a small block not big block

Not 100% accurate. Ford never called it a small block.

 

[Mokume]

I can't speak to Pontiac or Buick, but for Oldsmobile this is wrong. Sorry.

Discarding anything prior to 1964 or after 1980 or so, Oldsmobile had two families of V8 engines, the small block and big block. The small blocks started at 330ci in 1964, grew to 350ci in 1968 and maxed out at 403ci in 1977. The big blocks started in 1965 with the 425ci in large cars and the 400ci in the A-body 4-4-2. It grew to 455ci in 1968 and was phased out in 1977 when the 403ci small block was introduced.

These were different blocks with the big blocks having taller deck heights. You are correct in that Oldsmobile was very smart in designing these engines to share many parts (cams, lifters sometimes, valve train, timing gear and chain, valve covers, distributors) other than the cranks and intakes, with the latter being wider due to the taller deck height of the big blocks. You can even put big block heads on the small block for greater airflow, but you lose a lot of compression due to the larger dish in the head.

My Dad owned a '69 Cutlass Coupe with a 350 2V motor, it was a very good looking car....but a gutless wonder. He traded his '67 Cougar for it and sure regretted it...but was back in a Cougar, a '70 model when he got rid of the Olds...

 

[Mokume]

Not 100% accurate. Ford never called it a small block.

Agreed...

I searched Google high and low and could not find exactly what Ford differentiated between a small and big block engine.

So I'll pose this question, who considers the old FE engines big blocks (if at all) and why?

Does cubic inch displacement denote the difference?

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