Choose Your Own Adventure Book: Buying a Raptor

[23FFRanger]

Well considering that minus symbol is doing the exact opposite of what its suppose to, yea that would be a pretty good assumption lmao

Whats the back story on this?

Got excited about the Raptor order. Didn't pay attention to the Price Est. until after I signed it. Conveniently they didn't mention an ADM. Went back and looked at the paperwork and noticed it hiding under the -rebate.

Luckily, I didn't pay a deposit and I'm not obligated to buy it when it comes in. Just annoyed they tried to sneak it in.

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[OFC Ranger]

Got excited about the Raptor order. Didn't pay attention to the Price Est. until after I signed it. Conveniently they didn't mention an ADM. Went back and looked at the paperwork and noticed it hiding under the -rebate.

Luckily, I didn't pay a deposit and I'm not obligated to buy it when it comes in. Just annoyed they tried to sneak it in.

Well at the very least I would confront them on it for the entertainment value. You could start the conversation off with,

"Yea I was hanging out and drinking some beers with my buddy who is a lawyer (pick the name of the most high dollar lawyer in your town) and he saw this paperwork on the table and asked me what this means.

So, what does it mean?"

Total bullshit fabrication, but it will be funny either way they go.

If you happen to live in the major city that houses your state's Attorney General, substitute that person for the imaginary lawyer buddy.

It is a totally valid tactic to use the dealerships own weapons against them, smoke and mirrors, or outright lies. I am not talking about lies that someone of good moral character would never do, I mean lies to out bullshit the bullshitter. Never fight fair, ever, under any circumstance that doesn't involve a referee as a third party.

War
Street Fight
Buying a Car

Its all the same.

 

[23FFRanger]

Well at the very least I would confront them on it for the entertainment value. You could start the conversation off with,

"Yea I was hanging out and drinking some beers with my buddy who is a lawyer (pick the name of the most high dollar lawyer in your town) and he saw this paperwork on the table and asked me what this means.

So, what does it mean?"

Total bullshit fabrication, but it will be funny either way they go.

If you happen to live in the major city that houses your state's Attorney General, substitute that person for the imaginary lawyer buddy.

It is a totally valid tactic to use the dealerships own weapons against them, smoke and mirrors, or outright lies. I am not talking about lies that someone of good moral character would never do, I mean lies to out bullshit the bullshitter. Never fight fair, ever, under any circumstance that doesn't involve a referee as a third party.

War
Street Fight
Buying a Car

Its all the same.

Thats a good idea. I think I will end the conversation with

"Well I will see what Ford thinks about it as well."

I think Ford got tired of their dealerships being shitheads last year and maybe that threat will hold some weight.

They are selling me a '23 Tremor at a steep discount thinking I will trade it in on the Raptor eventually. Looks like I'm just getting a discount.

 

[OFC Ranger]

Thats a good idea. I think I will end the conversation with

"Well I will see what Ford thinks about it as well."

I think Ford got tired of their dealerships being shitheads last year and maybe that threat will hold some weight.

They are selling me a '23 Tremor at a steep discount thinking I will trade it in on the Raptor eventually. Looks like I'm just getting a discount.

I don't recommend dropping that line. I imagine dealerships hear that all the time.

Kind of like me being the police, when someone says "I am going to sue you" I respond with, "Heres my business card with all my info on it so they spell everything right on the paperwork" kind of deal.

The trick to messing with a dealership is to articulate your displeasure or future action so it leaves a question mark in their head. What you say needs to be ambiguous and leave some confusion, or maybe some might label it as passive aggressive. Maybe a more down to earth term is you troll them.

Cause that is all they are doing when they negotiate, is trolling the customer.

I bought a used truck once and when they presented final paperwork the sales manager said the only way to get it financed was with an extended warranty plan (my credit score at time back then was 744, so that was a red flag). Well at least in Georgia, it is illegal to tell a customer that they cannot buy the product unless they buy an up-sale when its a lie. It even says so in small print at the bottom of the paperwork.

I pointed to that at the bottom and bluntly told the sales manager, "I am going to pretend this conversation did not happen. Fix this paperwork, you have 15 minutes, and I'll not have another word about adding any additional items to this."

Last I heard, a few months after that, that particular sales manager was no longer employed at that dealership.

In my 26 years of having a drivers license I have never encountered a pleasant experience at any dealership across various brands, new, used, whatever.

Ever.

I know there are morally decent salesmen out there at dealerships and I try not to generalize, because my father was one, and my brother is currently one, but man.... F*** dealerships through and through.

 

[23FFRanger]

I don't recommend dropping that line. I imagine dealerships hear that all the time.

Kind of like me being the police, when someone says "I am going to sue you" I respond with, "Heres my business card with all my info on it so they spell everything right on the paperwork" kind of deal.

The trick to messing with a dealership is to articulate your displeasure or future action so it leaves a question mark in their head. What you say needs to be ambiguous and leave some confusion, or maybe some might label it as passive aggressive. Maybe a more down to earth term is you troll them.

Cause that is all they are doing when they negotiate, is trolling the customer.

I bought a used truck once and when they presented final paperwork the sales manager said the only way to get it financed was with an extended warranty plan (my credit score at time back then was 744, so that was a red flag). Well at least in Georgia, it is illegal to tell a customer that they cannot buy the product unless they buy an up-sale when its a lie. It even says so in small print at the bottom of the paperwork.

I pointed to that at the bottom and bluntly told the sales manager, "I am going to pretend this conversation did not happen. Fix this paperwork, you have 15 minutes, and I'll not have another word about adding any additional items to this."

Last I heard, a few months after that, that particular sales manager was no longer employed at that dealership.

In my 26 years of having a drivers license I have never encountered a pleasant experience at any dealership across various brands, new, used, whatever.

Ever.

I know there are morally decent salesmen out there at dealerships and I try not to generalize, because my father was one, and my brother is currently one, but man.... F*** dealerships through and through.

Thats a good point about the ford comment.

I went to this dealership because some of the guys I work with seems to have had a good experience ordering and buying their new vehicles. But the closer I look the more I can see they are trying to manipulate the numbers and their words to get more than these two trucks I ordered are worth.

Luckily, I am in a position to turn them down. I don't need a truck at all.

 

[Ranger X3]

Anyone else try and get in line for a new Ranger Raptor and got told there's a markup or did the dealer agree to MSRP? Maybe the OP is the only one willing to pay over so now they're gonna ask for more! Lol jk I'm only kidding but I'm curious to what the dealerships are saying as a whole on the Ranger Raptor.

I called two dealers, 10k over and the other was selling at MSRP with a long list of buyers.?

 

[Jason B]

and this is the difference between legal and illegal price gouging. by definition charging 50K over the MSRP of a vehicle is price gouging. you may not agree with wiki or Webster or dictionary.com but you will note that they do not say it has to be essential goods and services. they all just say goods and services. but . you do you.

I disagree. Price gouging usually refers to raising prices on needed item such as food, water, fuel, etc., especially in a crisis. No one NEEDS a Raptor. They WANT a Raptor. The ADM is on this model because it's in high demand. Now, if they suddenly added $5-10K on all vehicles, that may be considered gouging or market manipulation.
Fuel is a needed commodity for most people. In Louisiana, we average $3.07 for regular gas, in California it's $4.80. Do you consider CA is price gouging on fuel costs with its 56% mark up? Or is it just supply and demand?

 

[Superdannyboy]

Thats a good point about the ford comment.

I went to this dealership because some of the guys I work with seems to have had a good experience ordering and buying their new vehicles. But the closer I look the more I can see they are trying to manipulate the numbers and their words to get more than these two trucks I ordered are worth.

Luckily, I am in a position to turn them down. I don't need a truck at all.

I think a lot of ranger owners didn't want to pay so much for a full size truck to begin with but wanted a truck so there's less leverage.

 

[OFC Ranger]

Chapter 3: " The Girlfriend Who Refuses to Break-up"

I had to run an errand this morning on the same side of town as the dealership. I decided the previous evening, to go ahead and push this poker game and call the cards and just wash my hands of the matter. I have been delaying other projects completely based on this whole rigmarole so as not to tie up money on things that may become irrelevant should a new vehicle purchase come to fruition.

I have the nice looking (I think that is a job requirement at dealerships) front desk lady page Mr. OM and he greets me in the front lobby.

"Hey Jack, what can I do for you?"

"I haven't received a call from you, I had errands, so here I am."

He leads me back to his office, which I have now affectionately named The Mustache Man's Dungeon and take a seat across from him. Looking to finish this matter quickly, I begin the conversation;

"Are you going to accept the $5,000 - yes or no?"

OM: "He's not going to accept that"

"Ok well, thank you for your time"

Mr. OM then experiences an OODA Loop glitch again.

He gives the stereotypical salesman chuckle, "Whoa Whoa hold on I am still working on it. We still have awhile to wait till the truck can even be made"

"Yes, I am aware of the newest bulletin pushing production to September 1st - but that doesn't mean anything to me, the order list is growing and this is just putting me further and further back on the list. I would just assume focus my effort's elsewhere."

OM: "I understand, but give me some more time."

"I'm not interested. No offense, but this is all completely short sighted (I will elaborate on this later) over $2,500.

OM: "Well its just we have been contacting other dealers in our network and getting feedback on their raptor sales"

"Well I am part of a community of customers that far exceeds your contacts and I know the average ADM is $5,000."

Silence.

OM: "Well I am going to keep working on this, don't give up on us yet, we want you as a customer."

"I'm making it clear, I will not pay anything more than what I've said. The supply and demand is not going to change anytime soon, I fail to see, no offense intended, how you are going to convince your dealership to take the $5,000 later."

OM: "I get where you are coming from, but its just Ford is making this such a rare thing to get a hold of"

At this point I have said what I want to say to terminate the relationship, but this clingy girlfriend ain't having none of it, so now I am going to shift to making him chose to terminate the relationship through passive aggressive trolling for my own entertainment.

"No, this has nothing to do with Ford. This is a dealership choice. Our conversation is not even about haggling MSRP, or removing add-ons, or junk fees. This is about this dealership wanting to squeeze an additional $2,500 in pure in the pocket cash money above the already $5,000 + kick backs. The rarity of this trim for the first few allocations is irrelevant to me. For all I know you are customer shopping right now between any number of other people. You are asking me to write a blank check with my fluid cash while you "work on" this. I am not doing that. I'll tell you what, I'll give till the end of today for them to make a final decision on the $5,000 offer"

OM: "Well he said he won't take the $5,000."

"Ok, well no hard feelings, thank you for your time." I stand up and extend my hand.

He hesitates, then realize it will be bad form not to shake my hand. As he does so he says, "Look I understand, but I am going to keep working on this for you. Just give me some time."

My final response is, "You do what you want, I've said my peace."

Is this guy bonkers? Its not like you will not be able to sell this thing. So I am a bit curious what he is worried about.

I will not be making any further initiated contact with this dealer regarding the Raptor, or any future Ford vehicles at any dealership for that matter. I will delay my projects one more week just to see if they crack, but in my mind the relationship is terminated.

After one week I will write an e-mail to Ford corporate to explain this story and that I will not purchase any of their products in the future because this kind of experience is completely unnecessary. This is not being done to have any influence over the dealership decision, but just so I can say I did my due diligence and let the company know how their brand is fucking up and deteriorating. If they choose to take my words, along with others, and implement real change than good for them, if my e-mail goes into an automated trash bin then no skin off my back.

Will there be a Chapter 4? Who knows, but one is not planned at this point.

 

[Superdannyboy]

Chapter 3: " The Girlfriend Who Refuses to Break-up"

I had to run an errand this morning on the same side of town as the dealership. I decided the previous evening, to go ahead and push this poker game and call the cards and just wash my hands of the matter. I have been delaying other projects completely based on this whole rigmarole so as not to tie up money on things that may become irrelevant should a new vehicle purchase come to fruition.

I have the nice looking (I think that is a job requirement at dealerships) front desk lady page Mr. OM and he greets me in the front lobby.

"Hey Jack, what can I do for you?"

"I haven't received a call from you, I had errands, so here I am."

He leads me back to his office, which I have now affectionately named The Mustache Man's Dungeon and take a seat across from him. Looking to finish this matter quickly, I begin the conversation;

"Are you going to accept the $5,000 - yes or no?"

OM: "He's not going to accept that"

"Ok well, thank you for your time"

Mr. OM then experiences an OODA Loop glitch again.

He gives the stereotypical salesman chuckle, "Whoa Whoa hold on I am still working on it. We still have awhile to wait till the truck can even be made"

"Yes, I am aware of the newest bulletin pushing production to September 1st - but that doesn't mean anything to me, the order list is growing and this is just putting me further and further back on the list. I would just assume focus my effort's elsewhere."

OM: "I understand, but give me some more time."

"I'm not interested. No offense, but this is all completely short sighted (I will elaborate on this later) over $2,500.

OM: "Well its just we have been contacting other dealers in our network and getting feedback on their raptor sales"

"Well I am part of a community of customers that far exceeds your contacts and I know the average ADM is $5,000."

Silence.

OM: "Well I am going to keep working on this, don't give up on us yet, we want you as a customer."

"I'm making it clear, I will not pay anything more than what I've said. The supply and demand is not going to change anytime soon, I fail to see, no offense intended, how you are going to convince your dealership to take the $5,000 later."

OM: "I get where you are coming from, but its just Ford is making this such a rare thing to get a hold of"

At this point I have said what I want to say to terminate the relationship, but this clingy girlfriend ain't having none of it, so now I am going to shift to making him chose to terminate the relationship through passive aggressive trolling for my own entertainment.

"No, this has nothing to do with Ford. This is a dealership choice. Our conversation is not even about haggling MSRP, or removing add-ons, or junk fees. This is about this dealership wanting to squeeze an additional $2,500 in pure in the pocket cash money above the already $5,000 + kick backs. The rarity of this trim for the first few allocations is irrelevant to me. For all I know you are customer shopping right now between any number of other people. You are asking me to write a blank check with my fluid cash while you "work on" this. I am not doing that. I'll tell you what, I'll give till the end of today for them to make a final decision on the $5,000 offer"

OM: "Well he said he won't take the $5,000."

"Ok, well no hard feelings, thank you for your time." I stand up and extend my hand.

He hesitates, then realize it will be bad form not to shake my hand. As he does so he says, "Look I understand, but I am going to keep working on this for you. Just give me some time."

My final response is, "You do what you want, I've said my peace."

Is this guy bonkers? Its not like you will not be able to sell this thing. So I am a bit curious what he is worried about.

I will not be making any further initiated contact with this dealer regarding the Raptor, or any future Ford vehicles at any dealership for that matter. I will delay my projects one more week just to see if they crack, but in my mind the relationship is terminated.

After one week I will write an e-mail to Ford corporate to explain this story and that I will not purchase any of their products in the future because this kind of experience is completely unnecessary. This is not being done to have any influence over the dealership decision, but just so I can say I did my due diligence and let the company know how their brand is fucking up and deteriorating. If they choose to take my words, along with others, and implement real change than good for them, if my e-mail goes into an automated trash bin then no skin off my back.

Will their be a Chapter 4? Who knows, but one is not planned at this point.

Plost twist, the OM is watching this thread ??

 

[OFC Ranger]

Plost twist, the OM is watching this thread ??

Anything is possible.

If I was going to cast a tin foil hate possibility, it is that the GM is not actually involved at all and this is all a master craft of the OM - for all I know the GM could find out about this and be like, "Are you F'n stupid? Why did you turn down $5,000 on a Ranger?"

For some clarity, he already told me they mark up their F-150 Raptors $10,000 (which they generally sell for)

 

[Superdannyboy]

Anything is possible.

If I was going to cast a tin foil hate possibility, it is that the GM is not actually involved at all and this is all a master craft of the OM - for all I know the GM could find out about this and be like, "Are you F'n stupid? Why did you turn down $5,000 on a Ranger?"

For some clarity, he already told me they mark up their F-150 Raptors $10,000 (which they generally sell for)

Would you consider an f150 raptor?

 

[Chris M]

Chapter 3: " The Girlfriend Who Refuses to Break-up"

I had to run an errand this morning on the same side of town as the dealership. I decided the previous evening, to go ahead and push this poker game and call the cards and just wash my hands of the matter. I have been delaying other projects completely based on this whole rigmarole so as not to tie up money on things that may become irrelevant should a new vehicle purchase come to fruition.

I have the nice looking (I think that is a job requirement at dealerships) front desk lady page Mr. OM and he greets me in the front lobby.

"Hey Jack, what can I do for you?"

"I haven't received a call from you, I had errands, so here I am."

He leads me back to his office, which I have now affectionately named The Mustache Man's Dungeon and take a seat across from him. Looking to finish this matter quickly, I begin the conversation;

"Are you going to accept the $5,000 - yes or no?"

OM: "He's not going to accept that"

"Ok well, thank you for your time"

Mr. OM then experiences an OODA Loop glitch again.

He gives the stereotypical salesman chuckle, "Whoa Whoa hold on I am still working on it. We still have awhile to wait till the truck can even be made"

"Yes, I am aware of the newest bulletin pushing production to September 1st - but that doesn't mean anything to me, the order list is growing and this is just putting me further and further back on the list. I would just assume focus my effort's elsewhere."

OM: "I understand, but give me some more time."

"I'm not interested. No offense, but this is all completely short sighted (I will elaborate on this later) over $2,500.

OM: "Well its just we have been contacting other dealers in our network and getting feedback on their raptor sales"

"Well I am part of a community of customers that far exceeds your contacts and I know the average ADM is $5,000."

Silence.

OM: "Well I am going to keep working on this, don't give up on us yet, we want you as a customer."

"I'm making it clear, I will not pay anything more than what I've said. The supply and demand is not going to change anytime soon, I fail to see, no offense intended, how you are going to convince your dealership to take the $5,000 later."

OM: "I get where you are coming from, but its just Ford is making this such a rare thing to get a hold of"

At this point I have said what I want to say to terminate the relationship, but this clingy girlfriend ain't having none of it, so now I am going to shift to making him chose to terminate the relationship through passive aggressive trolling for my own entertainment.

"No, this has nothing to do with Ford. This is a dealership choice. Our conversation is not even about haggling MSRP, or removing add-ons, or junk fees. This is about this dealership wanting to squeeze an additional $2,500 in pure in the pocket cash money above the already $5,000 + kick backs. The rarity of this trim for the first few allocations is irrelevant to me. For all I know you are customer shopping right now between any number of other people. You are asking me to write a blank check with my fluid cash while you "work on" this. I am not doing that. I'll tell you what, I'll give till the end of today for them to make a final decision on the $5,000 offer"

OM: "Well he said he won't take the $5,000."

"Ok, well no hard feelings, thank you for your time." I stand up and extend my hand.

He hesitates, then realize it will be bad form not to shake my hand. As he does so he says, "Look I understand, but I am going to keep working on this for you. Just give me some time."

My final response is, "You do what you want, I've said my peace."

Is this guy bonkers? Its not like you will not be able to sell this thing. So I am a bit curious what he is worried about.

I will not be making any further initiated contact with this dealer regarding the Raptor, or any future Ford vehicles at any dealership for that matter. I will delay my projects one more week just to see if they crack, but in my mind the relationship is terminated.

After one week I will write an e-mail to Ford corporate to explain this story and that I will not purchase any of their products in the future because this kind of experience is completely unnecessary. This is not being done to have any influence over the dealership decision, but just so I can say I did my due diligence and let the company know how their brand is fucking up and deteriorating. If they choose to take my words, along with others, and implement real change than good for them, if my e-mail goes into an automated trash bin then no skin off my back.

Will there be a Chapter 4? Who knows, but one is not planned at this point.

Yeah, we will need a chapter 4, please sir, if only a bit later on to see if they've truly move on and/or if Ford responds to your letter to them.
Thanks for including us in your journey!

 

[OFC Ranger]

Would you consider an f150 raptor?

No, don't want a full size truck or the price range of them based on the current market.

 

[Superdannyboy]

No, don't want a full size truck or the price range of them based on the current market.

What was it like 4-5 years ago you could get a gen 2 "base" raptor for like 57k?

Hope you find your Ranger Raptor. Seems like you the shit you had in one hand is slowly stacking ? Have you called other dealers?

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