Check Brake System

[MotoWojo]

Once again Ford gets blamed for the problems of the world. What part of this was a warranty issue, did they need to replace something that was broke or not working? S*** happens in cold weather, not sure what part of Wisconsin you live in but it does get cold here, not rare. The dealer got you in to look at it quickly, by todays standards. They read the codes and checked the system out and found it working. Without a reoccurance it it is just a random issue that hopefully won't happen again. Could have happened to any modern vehicle.

About the weather in WI, I was being sarcastic, I thought it was obvious? And, it's a random issue that could kill someone. It was only double digits when it happened. I have owned this truck nearly 3 years, literally dozens of mornings were much much colder, hell it was 23 below on Tuesday when I got to work. Yes, they found it working, but they did nothing to determine why it faulted. The "must of been cold weather" was pulled right from their you know what. While I was there, they also checked the battery that has been constantly going into deep sleep mode even though I drive it 50 miles round trip to work and back, Mon-Fri. I showed them all the messages that I was getting on my Ford Pass app notifying me that the remote options were being disabled to preserve the battery and I should take it for a long drive..........and if it continues I should schedule service at my preferred dealer, which I did. They told me that shows that the system is working properly and it shuts things down when the battery gets low. And then they told me that the battery tests fine and it is good to go. Huh? If that's over your head, then I give up.

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[Big Blue]

Hope is not a great maintenance strategy. Sometimes that thought process ends up being a footnote in an accident report. I would leave the truck at the dealer, ask for a loaner, and have them test it in same conditions as the original occurrence. It's one thing to clear the codes, it's another to verify it works. The problem isn't the sync system, it's the brakes.

OK, what were the "exact" conditions of the occurance and how do you duplicate them? Who pays for this loner and the time it takes to do this test when nothing is found wrong.

I agree brake issues are a scary thing and thankfully nothing tragic happened in this instance. Nothing is 100% foolproof or positive. It is a risk we all take when we get behind the wheel. We need to "hope" the everyone in the chain of developement and manufacture of the vehicle worked to make every system as reliable as possible. Nobody can foresee every possible point of failure in a system as complicated as a vehicle. One offs happen with no verifiable reason.

 

[MotoWojo]

Out of curious, what do you see is that strategy?

In my experience, unfortunately mostly with the Ranger, Ford is hamstringing the dealers and not allowing them to diagnose a problem properly, unless it fits a tight list of criteria. An example would be that I spent most of the summer of 2020 and part of 2021 without AC in my 40k+ truck. At first they found the refrigerant low and recharged the system and that worked for a short while, but continued to get worse as time went on. Mostly, it would blow cold, and keep up until it got into the upper 70's, and fall off sharply after that. So, I scheduled service to have it looked at, unfortunately, it was in the upper 60's the morning I took it in and they stuck a thermometer in the vent, told me it was blowing cold. They told me they believed me, but Ford would not authorize them to work on it unless it was blowing at a certain temperature or above. We scheduled another service and wouldn't you know another uncommonly cold day that summer. Long story short, after several visits consisting of the dealer topping off the refrigerant, that spanned over a year, I finally showed up on a 90's plus day, sweating bullets and raising hell, and it was fixed.

 

[Big Blue]

About the weather in WI, I was being sarcastic, I thought it was obvious? And, it's a random issue that could kill someone. It was only double digits when it happened. I have owned this truck nearly 3 years, literally dozens of mornings were much much colder, hell it was 23 below on Tuesday when I got to work. Yes, they found it working, but they did nothing to determine why it faulted. The "must of been cold weather" was pulled right from their you know what. While I was there, they also checked the battery that has been constantly going into deep sleep mode even though I drive it 50 miles round trip to work and back, Mon-Fri. I showed them all the messages that I was getting on my Ford Pass app notifying me that the remote options were being disabled to preserve the battery and I should take it for a long drive..........and if it continues I should schedule service at my preferred dealer, which I did. They told me that shows that the system is working properly and it shuts things down when the battery gets low. And then they told me that the battery tests fine and it is good to go. Huh? If that's over your head, then I give up.

First of all your sarcasm was not obvious, as it has been double digits below zero here several times in the last few weeks.

Secondly, what exactly where they suppost to do when the they found everything working properly? Tear your truck appart looking for something thatay never be found, replace a bunch of parts at their expense and give it back to you and say we found nothing wrong. Would that have made you happier.

Unfortunately sometimes things just happen. I understand when it happens to you and it's your trucks brakes, it's scary. Had the master cylinder go out on my Jimmy go out pulling my camper around Minneapples one time, scary as H*ll. No reason just happened. I know not the same. Some times we will never know what or why something happened.

Now to your battery issue. This I would look for a different dealer on. There have been known battery issues with some of the early model years and people have been getting them replaced.

And I will thank you not to make comment as to what is over my head, as you do not know me.

 

[MotoWojo]

OK, what were the "exact" conditions of the occurance and how do you duplicate them? Who pays for this loner and the time it takes to do this test when nothing is found wrong.

I agree brake issues are a scary thing and thankfully nothing tragic happened in this instance. Nothing is 100% foolproof or positive. It is a risk we all take when we get behind the wheel. We need to "hope" the everyone in the chain of developement and manufacture of the vehicle worked to make every system as reliable as possible. Nobody can foresee every possible point of failure in a system as complicated as a vehicle. One offs happen with no verifiable reason.

I get what your saying, but when it's a safety issue, there should be at least a minimum amount of investigation that goes beyond, "it seems to be fine now"? As for the loaner, I have the extended warranty, so that has been prepaid.......

 

[TomC]

OK, what were the "exact" conditions of the occurance and how do you duplicate them? Who pays for this loner and the time it takes to do this test when nothing is found wrong.

The exact conditions according to the OP were " I had a pretty good scare on my way to work this morning. " and that this occurred sometime before 0700. I would imagine its cold in Wisconsin, so at the temperature or colder. It was 22 miles into a 25 mile commute, so I would have the dealer drive it 25 miles at that temp or colder first thing in the morning. If the dealer didn't give me a loaner I would rent a car. And then I would have the paperwork to back up my claim I acted as a responsible driver should an accident occur.

The dealer cleared two codes, and as far as I can tell didn't try to replicate the OPs situation. It's much easier to explain to law enforcement this is what the dealer did vs clearing two codes and "hoping" the brakes worked.

Who pays for this once an accident happens, should it occur? Doesn't really matter if he ends up in a ditch or rear ends another vehicle, it is more about being sure the brakes work, and not "hoping".

 

[jblc]

I agree brake issues are a scary thing and thankfully nothing tragic happened in this instance. Nothing is 100% foolproof or positive. It is a risk we all take when we get behind the wheel.

I would agree for almost anything else...but not brakes

The one thing I would gently push back on, is that brakes are -- perhaps -- the single most safety-critical item on a vehicle. They're designed to be highly robust and redundant, to basically not ever fail.

It seems odd to attribute that brakes not working is "a risk we all take". There should not be mysterious brake issues on any vehicle.

If there are, it should be recalled; I think the NHTSA would also not see a mysterious brake issue as an acceptable risk we all take when getting behind the wheel....

 

[MotoWojo]

First of all your sarcasm was not obvious, as it has been double digits below zero here several times in the last few weeks.

I know....it's Wisconsin..............it's obviously friggin cold in January.....that's why when I said "rare"........

And I will thank you not to make comment as to what is over my head, as you do not know me.

Sorry about that but the "Once again Ford gets blamed for the problems of the world" rubbed me the wrong way. And there most definitely was a reason your master cylinder went out and why my truck did what it did. The question is how much effort should be expended in to determining the cause. Your a mechanical engineer or designer, I am sure you have heard of DFMEA or FMEA? Something like that.

 

[Big Blue]

Not even going to respond to any of the recent posts
There seems to be so much excitement about this because it involves the brakes.

I agree the braking system is the one most important safety system in a vehicle, and the one you least want to have fail. But every system can and will fail at some time. So, yes it is a risk we all take.

As far as the dealer just clearing the codes and pushing the vehicle out the door. I'm sure that does not happen. Be cause it invovles the breaks, not just anyone can work on it. And I'm sure there are manditory checks and tests that must ne done before it is relased to the customer.

 

[rcairflr]

Just an idea. This was definitely a safety issue and might be worth reporting to NHTSA.

 

[MotoWojo]

[/QUOTE]Just an idea. This was definitely a safety issue and might be worth reporting to NHTSA.
[/QUOTE]
Well, I hope, at the very least, that this thread will help anyone who may encounter the same issue. When this happened, I was totally caught off guard, not knowing exactly what was going on except for my truck not slowing down, and probably lost a split second before instinctively really standing into the pedal. Again, I was lucky no one was in front of me. The thing I find most puzzling, is that I am old enough to remember vehicles without power brakes and this situation required way more force on the pedal than that. I even practiced quickly reaching for the parking brake on my way home, just in case.

 

[MotoWojo]

Dangnamit, the day after the dealership told me the battery tested good, I woke up to a dead battery. 4.7V, too low for my battery tender to even start charging. Stuck at home. Needed to call a friend to bring over a 10 amp charger. After about 3hrs, it was up to 11.7V and I was able to start it. Put the trickle charger on it and after a day, it has dropped to 11.3V. I think it is toast. The odd thing is the fuel pump is priming randomly, I would say at least once every 5 minutes and sometimes more. That may be the cause of the bad battery? The only reason I know that is I have a heated garage and I have been out here working on a couple projects while watching the football games and have been hearing that high pitched tuning fork sound all afternoon.

 

[NZSteve]

I had a pretty good scare on my way to work this morning. About 22 miles into my 25 mile commute, I was exiting off the highway and when I started braking, the brake pedal was not moving, and the truck was not slowing down. I am a big guy, and I ended up slowing the truck down, but I was really stepping into the pedal, which was super firm and hardly budging. There is a gas station not far from the exit and I was able to nurse it into the parking lot, but even at a crawl, I really had stand on the brake pedal to get it to slow down and eventually stop. Once stopped, I shut the truck off and opened the door and closed it again and restarted the truck. An error message popped up warning "Check Brake System". Even while parked, the brake pedal was super firm. I was thinking I somehow lost the brake assist, but man that pedal was hard to push, and there is no way I could have made a sudden stop, if I needed to. The other thing to note, was that it sounded like the ABS was kicking in, at least the noise of it, even though the pavement was dry and I am positive I was not sliding at all. Anyway after sitting there for 10 minutes, thinking I would need to call roadside assistance, I started the truck up and the warning was gone and the pedal felt normal, so I made it the remaining few miles into work. At 7:00am, when the local Ford dealer opened, I called them and they are getting me in tomorrow to look at it. I did drive it home, but I was super cautious the whole way. I did a search, but could not find anything on the forum, has anyone else experienced this? If so, what was the culprit?

Hi everyone
Very keen to hear any updates on this thread. My 2024 Ranger Wildtrak has done the same thing twice on frosty mornings. The crash avoidance, abs are all disabled and the brake pedal becomes very hard and you almost zero braking. As a mechanic this is actually extremely dangerous and I will be following this up with NZ regulatory authorities. A vehicle should not do this and there should always be an ability to brake in emergency situations which when this occurs this doesn't happen. The abs pump seems to malfunction and feels to operate as you are pressing the brake pedal so hard. If you pull over and switch off for several minutes then switch back on the computers then all rest and normal braking returns. This doesn't seem to be a brake booster issue it appears to be a computer or sensor issue and potentially it could be because the front camera ie gor crash avoidance has iced over although at this point I can't be sure. I heading to the dealer tomorrow and will update as I receive more information. I will also scan for codes myself and post these to keep you all informed

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