Chrysler Going All Electric By 2028

[9zero1790]

all these things being not really ready and able to handle everyone having an ev is part of the real reason the ev push is happening. the ev roll out will force industry and jobs and taxes and govt regulation. think of all the materials, man hours and money that will be needed for the majority of the states to have ev ready infrastructure and powering demands met. so its a win win for govt, big tech, big corps and us and our ever growing dependency on them... and it will start finishing off fossil fuel thats not already at the mercy of big brother. a side note, Chryslers are still planning to sell in the future lol ha... they should just drop the brand now and try to salvage dodge jeep and ram while they can.

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[GitRDone]

I'm of the "try everything" camp so it is sad to hear of another manufacturer going all-in on electric when the IC engine still has untapped potential. (Also, I prefer things that roar to things that whir).

Besides the power grid issues, the global demand for lithium for new batteries is straining the current supply. Afghanistan is reportedly rich in this element, and strip mining it might have provided a sustainable source of income to the Afghan people in that otherwise God-forsaken landscape. But that ship sailed when we bailed.

 

[dtech]

FWIW link to a site dedicated to EVs, good info from a ww perspective about the growing demand for ev vehicles, ford sold over 27,000 ev mustangs in 2021, tesla posted 309k unit sales in q4 2021 and is building more battery plants so the ev revolution is gaining momentum despite the challenges and skeptics, same thing occurred with the transition from horse and buggy to the automobile, better get on this train before it leaves the station, lol.

https://insideevs.com/news/

 

[Jason B]

This is the engineer in me talking. Until this country can produce energy using a sustainable fission reactor or some other means that produces unlimited amounts of energy for little to no cost we will be tied to the current methods and its drawbacks. Current infrastructure has to be addressed before the burden is placed on it or, obviously it will collapse on itself. Isn’t that right Watson…

We are years, probably decades from a 'sustainable fission reactor'. And when it is here, it will be nowhere near 'little to no cost'. Companies won't spend billions to build a fission reactor, then give away energy a 'little to no cost'.

 

[ch57]

I can't give a good example as I have solar that negates a large portion of charging costs.

80kWh battery x .08/kwh = $6.40 for a full charge or about 250-300 miles depending on weather
$6.40 x 30 days adds about $192 in charging costs in a month

Very few people drive this much though. the US average estimates 40 miles round trip. This is driven 150 miles day minimum. so potentially 3-4 times higher than average driver.

I dont think "average 40 miles per round trip" is accurate at all. It would be interesting to see where that stat comes from but I am willing to bet those stats only include major cities. The majority of America is still quite rural. For me, my coworkers, and all my neighbors, we have an average of 180 miles a day - and thats for anything. Weekends easily double that. But we live in a pretty rural area. Theres a lot of small towns within a 3 hour drive of us as well, although many of those are farms where they only go to town once a month. However, for them, at 300-400 miles round trip for a 'town' run - a EV just won't work - especially in 0 degree temps.

 

[slowmachine]

I dont think "average 40 miles per round trip" is accurate at all. It would be interesting to see where that stat comes from but I am willing to bet those stats only include major cities. The majority of America is still quite rural. For me, my coworkers, and all my neighbors, we have an average of 180 miles a day - and thats for anything. Weekends easily double that. But we live in a pretty rural area. Theres a lot of small towns within a 3 hour drive of us as well, although many of those are farms where they only go to town once a month. However, for them, at 300-400 miles round trip for a 'town' run - a EV just won't work - especially in 0 degree temps.

In and around major cities is where the majority of the population lives. However much of America is rural, the population is spread very thin, and does not reflect average driving.

 

[Progeny2021]

Pretty aggressive timeline IMHO.

Chrysler CES 2022 Announcement

It looks like this may be Chrysler specific and not aimed at Jeep, Ram, etc.

The Chrysler Airflow Concept does look pretty cool.

I'm just wondering how Chrysler can get by without having transmissions to fail.

Regarding EV infrastructure? 20 more years minimum if the nation doesn't collapse. At present, EVs are at best 'urban cars'.

The Chrysler transmission jab is noted. A604-41TE Ultradrive transmissions were Chrysler's first fully electronic, and least reliable transmissions (1990-2010), especially the early models. Impressive on paper. Strangely, it was reported Chrysler was experiencing a 10% failure rate for units under warranty, with no factory recall ordered by the NHTSA - the threshold is normally 6%. Later units improved markedly but the reputation stuck unfortunately.

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If the Davos Communists aren't deposed, our dystopian future - for the survivors - will be one of a vastly depopulated earth dominated by the Chinese but ruled by 'you know who'. We will be chipped and controlled by 5G and whatever comes next. No physical currency, live from 'COVID booster to booster' until we are no longer needed. Enemies of the People? The state will take control of their electric cars and 'deliver the package' to the nearest 'processing center'. Soylent Green anyone? Cars will be turned off remotely for anyone with insufficient 'social scores'.

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Regarding the present, I like the Airflow concept. Designed under Stellantis or FCA? No big secret we are near the end of an era of ICE V8, rear drive vehicles - Chrysler/Dodge cars being the most affordable. It's been pure pleasure to own and drive my 2020 Chrysler 300s 5.7 Alloy Special Edition.

 

[OCL]

Besides the power grid issues, the global demand for lithium for new batteries is straining the current supply. Afghanistan is reportedly rich in this element, and strip mining it might have provided a sustainable source of income to the Afghan people in that otherwise God-forsaken landscape. But that ship sailed when we bailed.

Top 6 Lithium Deposits in the World

Most of the Lithium deposits are in South America. US is #5. China #6. There is very little Lithium mining in the USA. Most are imported from S.A.

Even if Afghanistan had large deposits of Li, it's not a viable place to mine due to a total lack of infrastructure to move all that material, find suitable skilled labor, and most of all, acceptable security. Until Afghans move from their tribal/secular way of life, nothing will happen there. They'll kill and genocide each other until a large enough number of Afghans say enough is enough. I don't see that happening any time soon. So many countries are like that around the world. They're content with just existing.

 

[Jason B]

Top 6 Lithium Deposits in the World

Most of the Lithium deposits are in South America. US is #5. China #6. There is very little Lithium mining in the USA. Most are imported from S.A.

Even if Afghanistan had large deposits of Li, it's not a viable place to mine due to a total lack of infrastructure to move all that material, find suitable skilled labor, and most of all, acceptable security. Until Afghans move from their tribal/secular way of life, nothing will happen there. They'll kill and genocide each other until a large enough number of Afghans say enough is enough. I don't see that happening any time soon. So many countries are like that around the world. They're content with just existing.

They probably said the same about oil deposits in Afghanistan.

 

[OCL]

FWIW link to a site dedicated to EVs, good info from a ww perspective about the growing demand for ev vehicles, ford sold over 27,000 ev mustangs in 2021, tesla posted 309k unit sales in q4 2021 and is building more battery plants so the ev revolution is gaining momentum despite the challenges and skeptics, same thing occurred with the transition from horse and buggy to the automobile, better get on this train before it leaves the station, lol.

https://insideevs.com/news/

I'm not an EV skeptic. I'm a Tesla skeptic. Tesla sold that much more vehicles because they have no real competition...yet. Competition is slowly trickling into the market. Tesla already delayed the Cyber truck to 2023. Meanwhile, Ford is about to release the F150 Lightning, and GM is not far behind. While it's true that Ford sold "a lot" of Mustang Mach-E's, 27k is nothing for Ford. In order for Ford to gain efficiency in any manufacturing plant they need to sell something like 100k units/year. Otherwise, it's a money loser.

The market for Electric pick up trucks will not come from new customers, it will come from existing customers. When....not IF, when Ford, GM, and FCA get their acts together and finally release their all electric trucks (and more hybrid trucks), that tiny little market share gain that Tesla and Rivian are vying for will quickly evaporate. Current customers of domestic pick up trucks will just switch to EV trucks from the big 3. That's why I believe Tesla and Rivian E-trucks will not survive that long. Rivian is a flash in the pan. I don't see them surviving. They're on shaky ground right now. The only thing they're hanging on to, and the only thing investors of Rivian are hoping for, is that Amazon agreement to purchase 100k E-truck platforms from Rivian. And you know Amazon isn't going to pay a premium for those. Why when they can just go to Ford or GM for the same platform for less cost, because Ford/GM has the huge advantage in manufacturing scale and efficiencies that Rivian will never be able to match?

Another EV car company is trying to survive: Fisker. Chinese state owned, "manufactured" in California. They still haven't delivered anything in moderate numbers to customers. They're already marketing the Fisker Ocean SUV and touting 360 mile range. Sight unseen. No test units to review. No factory. They just want deposits. I wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot pole.

 

[OCL]

They probably said the same about oil deposits in Afghanistan.

Yeah. Afghanistan has nothing of value. It's freakin' land locked too. Imagine getting anything out of there? Surrounded by unfriendly, unsympathetic neighbors. Talk about a rock in a hard place! Pakistan will not let Afghanistan flourish at their expense.

Also, from US perspective, we don't need anybody's oil. Even if we import from our friendly allies like Canada, Mexico, and Saudi Arabia, if push comes to shove we can cover that supply domestically. We don't have to as we can rely on those three with a high degree of certainty. Overall, N.A. (US/Canada/Mexico) is pretty much self reliant. Yes I know we get a lot of low value goods from China...but that has been shifting to other parts of SE Asia, primarily due to greater efficiency and friendlier business atmosphere. China is making it VERY difficult for Westerners to do business there. If the CCP doesn't like you, they will target you and destroy you. That's not the kind of place you want to do business in. Right now, the CCP is not liking Mercedes Benz' success in China, so they went on a PR offensive to accuse M-B of racism with their car designs (slanted headlights resemble slanted eyes of Chinese). Dirty politics.

 

[dtech]

People have lost billions shorting tesla stock - $2.8B in 2019 alone, the point is that Tesla has and is proving the skeptics wrong and one could argue that Tesla's success has been the catalyst for multiple automakers saying they will be forsaking the ice and switching to all electric. Of course this will be competition for Tesla that's how the market is supposed to work and there will be companies that try to succeed in the EV market and fail.
Folks were skeptical - some outraged by Ford's use of the mustang name - but I believe Ford is pleased with selling 27k copies for a 1st year into and a partial year at that.

 

[Progeny2021]

China is making it VERY difficult for Westerners to do business there. If the CCP doesn't like you, they will target you and destroy you. That's not the kind of place you want to do business in. Right now, the CCP is not liking Mercedes Benz' success in China, so they went on a PR offensive to accuse M-B of racism with their car designs (slanted headlights resemble slanted eyes of Chinese). Dirty politics.

The Davos Communists love China and the Chinese model, especially after their Soviet model collapsed in on itself. Perhaps if Stalin had lived and killed 60 million more? Davos sees China as the 'lynchpin' of their 'new world order'.

 

[OCL]

People have lost billions shorting tesla stock - $2.8B in 2019 alone, the point is that Tesla has and is proving the skeptics wrong and one could argue that Tesla's success has been the catalyst for multiple automakers saying they will be forsaking the ice and switching to all electric. Of course this will be competition for Tesla that's how the market is supposed to work and there will be companies that try to succeed in the EV market and fail.
Folks were skeptical - some outraged by Ford's use of the mustang name - but I believe Ford is pleased with selling 27k copies for a 1st year into and a partial year at that.

I agree with everything you said. Ford should be ashamed for whoring out the Mustang namesake just to sell an E-car. They could have easily just named it something cool and sold just as many. It's not the name: it's the car that sells.

Tesla will succeed because they entered the market and established their trademark performance EV company at a time when nobody else wanted to. And they had zero competitors. It's the truck market that I believe they may find a struggle. Because like I said, they need to poach customers from the big three, and the big three aren't going to give that up without a fight. And already Tesla is behind the curve ball on releasing an E-truck. By the time 2023 rolls around, Ford F150 Lightning will have been in the market for at least 1.5 years. And I will bet my house the quality and reliability is going to be a step or two above that of Tesla. Tesla ranks at the bottom of quality and reliability ratings. Also note, Porsche/Audi has already released their Tesla S competitor, priced the same, with similar performance. Buyers at this price level will surely cross shop. Large manufacturers are not standing idly by as Tesla sweeps the market in high performance EV's. That's all I'm saying. Not saying Tesla will fail. They had a head start. But the competitors are catching up FAST.

 

[slowmachine]

The big car companies have a lot of inertia to overcome before they catch up to Tesla. As always, an open, competitive market will pick the winners. Tesla is a top-notch technology company, learning to build cars at scale. The big car companies know how to build at scale, but suck at technology. I read an opinion piece not long ago that advised traditional car companies to tell their management people to open their laptops and write a simple program. If they are unable to do that, reassign or fire them immediately. They will not be able to lead the company into the future. Most internal combustion vehicle parts come from outside suppliers. Technology integration is the most critical factor for success. We know from our Rangers that it needs a lot of improvement.

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