MPG gain in sport vs. Its inherent extra wear on components

[Groo]

Groo here
I make the same run about 170 miles to get parts for 6 months.
Tried it every witch way.
The engine seems to lug down in "D" at 55 or under [rural roads max speed 55]
In sport the engine is "sporter "
In Tow the engine seems to run in the sweet spot [ 1500 to 2000]
I believe the truck gets better mileage in tow or sport depending on the speed and road.
"D" shifts up too quickly and the engine lugs down, "S" and "D" holds gears longer and locks out top two.
D is for epa "Smog" test ,,, she lower the rpm the less air / gas pumped through and lower the smog rating.
This may or may not be the best mileage range.
Smog comes first milage second
.

Sponsored

 

[D Fresh]

Generalities are always false.

Lugging would be defined at a different RPM for any given engine depending on work being done.

We're talking about the US Ranger here. We are all talking about one engine in particular. The 2.3l EB mated to the 10 spd auto.

I don't think you can "lug" The Ranger in any automatic mode.
Perhaps in manual , by intentionally up shifting under a load? (if it'll even do that?)

The trucks idle down the road @ roughly 1300 rpm in 7th gear going 35 mph. The truck is not in the powerband, or boost, and it takes a strong tip of the throttle to get it to downshift. A light throttle tip will not downshift, causing a high load, low rpm condition.

This is even worse if you're talking about long gradual hills. A throttle tip that is just enough to maintain speed will not downshift the truck until halfway up, lugging you halfway up the hill.

The shift pattern in D is too heavily weighted towards economy for a light footed driver. To the detriment of the vehicle, arguable as that may be, and the detriment of fuel economy for more aggressive drivers.

I've done the experiments in as controlled a manner as possible for me and my truck. D holds no value whatsoever for me. The mileage is worse than tow and the truck drives like shit comparatively. S takes that shift strategy too far though and tanks the mileage.

I'd be willing to bet that anybody here will come to the same conclusion if they're willing to do the experimenting.

 

[Floyd]

It sure feels like lugging at around 1300 RPM.

Idling in park is not "Lugging" (no load)
Your truck has parameters when in gear and chooses to downshift when needed to avoid "lugging in any remotely harmful way.
For instance, with any really measurable load, "Tow Haul" won't allow 10th gear.
"S" is for more spirited driving, "D" for Normal driving.
Did you ever ride a Road Bike ?

 

[D Fresh]

You guys are worrying yourselves about absolutely nothing. How on earth do you lug an automatic transmission? These trucks run on a torque based ECU. Meaning when you push the accelerator pedal down, you are essentially requesting a torque value. The ECU calculates the fuel, spark, throttle position, boost and gear before the throttle blade ever flinches. If you request a torque that can not be fulfilled in the current gear, the truck is going to downshift. You cannot force these trucks into a high load situation at low RPM. If you are at low RPM, high gear then the truck is in a low load situation it's not lugging.

Just because the engine note is low and the NVH is increased at lower RPMs does not mean the engine is lugging. Newsflash, inline 4 engines are not smooth at low RPM. This is not a new concept.

There is a grey area here that you aren't taking into account.

Higher load, vs "high" and the delay in the downshift.


Will it feel like you're trying to take off from a stop in 3rd in a manual? No.

Will it put the engine in a "higher" load, "lower" rpm situation increasing the chances of LSPI? Absolutely.

On top of that, it's no fun to drive around knowing that if you want to increase speed safely you have to mash the throttle to initiate a downshift. This is why D, in my truck, returns lesser fuel efficiency than Tow.

 

[D Fresh]

you need something to pre ignite the fuel.
it doesn't always happen just because you're lugging.
there's a chain of events that have to happen.

Of course you're right.

But knowing that lugging your engine is more likely to cause pre-ignition than not, isn't that something that you'd try to avoid?

Especially if you're one of the guys who insists on running lower octane fuel?

I could understand if there were a benifit to it. But I can see no upside to lugging around at 1300 r.p.m. all day.

 

[FunInTheSun]

i checked my shorts...no skid marks that i could see. do i need more torque, or should i reduce my oil change interval? I'm removing my crash bars, that should reduce my overall weight and increase my acceleration

Frequent Oil changes are always recommended...
Just don't start drilling holes in stuff to save weight. Leave that for the racer boiz.
Oh, and get rid of the front air dam. You don't need the downforce, and it just slows you down.

 

[Floyd]

We're talking about the US Ranger here. We are all talking about one engine in particular. The 2.3l EB mated to the 10 spd auto.

I'm aware of that,thus my point, this thing doesn't allow lugging when teamed with the 10SPD.
If you would like to lug a 2.3L Ecoboost, try driving the Mustang 6SPD and upshift too soon or misuse the clutch from a stop.
I don't think I mentioned these....

 

[BassRanger]

So.... We're well over 3 years into these trucks being on the road. How many reports of LSPI do we have this platform again? Fords prior Ecoboost LSPI issues are almost exclusive tied to their manual transmission vehicles. Once again, worrying about absolutely nothing.

 

[D Fresh]

I'm aware of that,thus my point, this thing doesn't allow lugging when teamed with the 10SPD.
If you would like to lug a 2.3L Ecoboost, try driving the Mustang 6SPD and upshift too soon or misuse the clutch from a stop.
I don't think I mentioned these....

Somehow autocorrect got a hold of it while splitting up your quote.

While your EB Mustang example is an extreme example, the Rangers' lugging is a mild example. Doesn't mean it isn't happening.

The shift logic in D idles the truck too low. Diminishing both fuel economy and drivability.

So.... We're well over 3 years into these trucks being on the road. How many reports of LSPI do we have this platform again? Fords prior Ecoboost LSPI issues are almost exclusive tied to their manual transmission vehicles. Once again, worrying about absolutely nothing.

It's not a matter of worry. It's a matter of annoyance. There's absolutely no reason to lug around town in 7th gear at 35mph.

It sucks to drive that way, and it could, possibly, cause problems. So why do it?

 

[Floyd]

The trucks idle down the road @ roughly 1300 rpm in 7th gear going 35 mph. The truck is not in the powerband, or boost, and it takes a strong tip of the throttle to get it to downshift. A light throttle tip will not downshift, causing a high load, low rpm condition.

This is even worse if you're talking about long gradual hills. A throttle tip that is just enough to maintain speed will not downshift the truck until halfway up, lugging you halfway up the hill.

The shift pattern in D is too heavily weighted towards economy for a light footed driver. To the detriment of the vehicle, arguable as that may be, and the detriment of fuel economy for more aggressive drivers.

I've done the experiments in as controlled a manner as possible for me and my truck. D holds no value whatsoever for me. The mileage is worse than tow and the truck drives like shit comparatively. S takes that shift strategy too far though and tanks the mileage.

I'd be willing to bet that anybody here will come to the same conclusion if they're willing to do the experimenting.

I run stock tires on a 2WD SuperCab.
My power to weight ratio is better than most Rangers.
The thing is both a RocketSled and an economy car and I get to choose!
We do have substantially different trucks in substantially different environments, and probably different expectations.
Fortunately we have choices and "S" mode is where you are most comfortable, but rest assured, you won't hurt the engine by driving the truck in "D".
I drove manual transmissions almost exclusively for 45 years because of the driveability issues of automatics. This is the best automatic with the most control of any I have yet experienced.

 

[puckdodger]

Idling in park is not "Lugging" (no load)
Your truck has parameters when in gear and chooses to downshift when needed to avoid "lugging in any remotely harmful way.
For instance, with any really measurable load, "Tow Haul" won't allow 10th gear.
"S" is for more spirited driving, "D" for Normal driving.
Did you ever ride a Road Bike ?

Who said anything about idling in park??? I'm talking 13-1500 rpm in fourth or fifth, the thing is not ready to go, it needs to downshift and from what I've read about LSPI I don't want it happening to my truck.

It's not a road bike, it's a truck. ????

But I have to wonder if you have ever found anything that the omnipotent Ford engineers can't do? You strike me as the biggest Ford Fanboi I have ever come across.

 

[Floyd]

Somehow autocorrect got a hold of it while splitting up your quote.

While your EB Mustang example is an extreme example, the Rangers' lugging is a mild example. Doesn't mean it isn't happening.

The shift logic in D idles the truck too low. Diminishing both fuel economy and drivability.

It's not a matter of worry. It's a matter of annoyance. There's absolutely no reason to lug around town in 7th gear at 35mph.

It sucks to drive that way, and it could, possibly, cause problems. So why do it?

Maybe you need a special tune, I see you have an FX4 , Offroad tires? CrewCab?
If so, maybe that 4 or 500 pounds of extra weight and that Colorado altitude could have something to do with it?
The tune and parameters seem to be optimized for my 2WD SuperCab on street tires at under a 1000feet above sea level
Even the "TowHaul" and "S" parameters are optimal.

I do think that TowHaul is a tiny bit "over protective", so I don't use it much with my Scamp, but then most trailers tow a LOT harder.

 

[D Fresh]

I run stock tires on a 2WD SuperCab.
My power to weight ratio is better than most Rangers.
The thing is both a RocketSled and an economy car and I get to choose!
We do have substantially different trucks in substantially different environments, and probably different expectations.

Valid point.

My FX-4 SCrew on e-rated 33s at a high elevation is a different animal altogether, although even on stock tires D was unbearable for anything but flat highway cruising.

Fortunately we have choices and "S" mode is where you are most comfortable, but rest assured, you won't hurt the engine by driving the truck in "D".

I'm all for choices.

And just to be clear, I prefer tow. S is just not really necessary to me unless I want to manually shift.

Potential harm to the engine is a tertiary point. Primary being drivability, secondary being economy.

I drove manual transmissions almost exclusively for 45 years because of the driveability issues of automatics. This is the best automatic with the most control of any I have yet experienced.

The transmission is great. It's the logic that sucks. The truck should not idle so far away from boost.

It should idle just outside or slightly into building boost. This way it's setup for a light roll onto the throttle.

It makes driving the truck feel more like a chore than it should.

 

[D Fresh]

Maybe you need a special tune, I see you have an FX4 , Offroad tires? CrewCab?
If so, maybe that 4 or 500 pounds of extra weight and that Colorado altitude could have something to do with it?
The tune and parameters seem to be optimized for my 2WD SuperCab on street tires at under a 1000feet above sea level
Even the "TowHaul" and "S" parameters are optimal.

I do think that TowHaul is a tiny bit "over protective", so I don't use it much with my Scamp, but then most trailers tow a LOT harder.

Not sure what you mean by "over protective"

But yes, a tune will happen at some point.

 

[BassRanger]

It's not a matter of worry. It's a matter of annoyance. There's absolutely no reason to lug around town in 7th gear at 35mph.

It sucks to drive that way, and it could, possibly, cause problems. So why do it?

So, driving the truck in Drive could possibly cause problems???

Sponsored