Ford Threatens Dealerships.

[VAMike]

3] Moot point! you would simply transfer the dealers profit directly into the pockets of the manufacturer ( or its online sales company)

Good! The manufacturer adds value. Maybe they'll be able to use the increased profits to pay for tie downs or something.

5]Another valid point, from your point of view, but certainly no incentive for the car company to see it that way.

Why on earth would the manufacturer want customers to be discouraged from buying the product they want from the manufacturer, possibly buying from a different manufacturer instead, because a dealer doesn't know the manufacturer's product line? That makes no sense.

Same with price, I usually tell the salesman that I want him to get rich on the ten customers before me and the ten after me... allowing him to be "magnanimous" in my case.
As you say... (other buyers choices are not my problem at the moment of sale)

I've learned over the years that there's a certain set of people who really enjoy talking about how great they are at car shopping. Whenever they buy a new car, they're going to tell you the story about how they outfought sales guy. It brings them joy to feel like they one-upped the dealer. That's them. I view the whole thing as a show that I have to pay for but don't want to attend. There's set-piece drama, and a little bell at the end. No matter how many times you try to explain how skilled you are, I'm never going to think anything other than "what a miserable way to spend an afternoon". Just as some people voluntarily go to 15 different stores to try on 50 different dresses because they enjoy the shopping experience: that's fine for them/you, but I'll pass.

On that last part... you're being disingenuous,... you obviously love to that sort of "wasted time"( as demonstrated here)

Freedom is being able to choose how to spend one's time, rather than being told how to spend it.

6]The existing "build and price" does not have a "make an offer" box and it would not work anyway. you would simply end up paying the same as the ten before and the ten after.

So what? They tell me their price, I decide if I want to pay that. I compare to the actual price from the other manufacturers and decide whether I'm getting value for my dollar. Could I save a few hundred bucks doing it your way? I don't care! The money doesn't really matter to me as much as the experience. I'll tell you, I remember a lot of miserable experiences at car dealerships, but I honestly don't remember what I paid for any of those cars. After a couple of decades, whatever it was sure doesn't seem like much. You do what you enjoy and value, and I'll do what I enjoy and value. Saving a few bucks haggling just isn't worth it to me, even if you think it's really rewarding. I'd rather buy a car the way I buy beans at the store--if I think they're charging too much, I just won't buy from them and will buy somewhere else instead. I'm sure as shit not going to spend time arguing with the cashier to knock a few dimes off.

7] Of course they won't have your particular configuration that's why you place an order.
but they generally have an example with a real world impression.

No. They literally had/have no supercabs.

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[VAMike]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of your argument for using dealers SEEMS to be based on the fact that YOU are a good negotiator and can get good deals/prices. Not that everybody can. And are also apparently accepting of the fact that a bunch of other people will pay for your "share" of the dealer profits. Despite also hating dealer profits, I simply can't get behind that attitude. I'm the kind of guy who will happily pay extra or go out of my way to help someone else, even at my own detriment. And before anyone says that's a stupid and naïve way to live life, I'll just say that it's only a stupid way if you consider money to be the most important aspect of life. Personally, I don't.

Our common fixed-price model (the way we buy most things) was popularized by quaker shopkeepers in colonial times because they considered it immoral to squeeze as much as they could out of people, rather than basing the price on what's fair and reasonable for both buyer and seller. The puritans hated that model, but eventually were forced into it because (surprise!) customers preferred shopping at places where they didn't feel like they had to constantly be on guard against being cheated by the proprietor.

 

[VAMike]

Price fixing for the purpose of fairness will ALWAYS result everybody paying more.

It turns out that's not actually true. In the real world the labor cost savings in not consuming time unproductively arguing with customers over prices more than offsets lower listed prices, so both seller and buyer can benefit.

 

[Floyd]

Freedom is being able to choose how to spend one's time, rather than being told how to spend it. The money doesn't really matter to me as much as the experience. I'll tell you, I remember a lot of miserable experiences at car dealerships,

No. They literally had/have no supercabs.

Freedom to choose how to spent one's time and money!


I am pretty much acquainted with every Ford dealer within a hundred miles of my home.
some even much further.
And as a fleet mechanic, many other brands and parts stores as well.
I can tell you that some are cynical and crooked...

Most however are decent folks with families and productive lives.
I have made many solid acquaintances, and several lifetime friendships with owners , salespeople, parts people , mechanics and service people, All of which have lives dependent on the auto industry, you are right....
The money doesn't really matter to me as much as the experience

SuperCabs were hard to find when I bought my 2019 as well.

And it turns out that it is true that Price fixing for the purpose of fairness will ALWAYS result everybody paying more. We are not talking about scarce essential goods here! Or Quaker motives on the part of the Automakers.

 

[Floyd]

This thread has made a bad turn for me. I have no objection to direct purchase of anything and I support the rights of others to do as they please.
Somehow, I have been repeatedly misread as to what I think.
Whether this is intentional on the part of the reader or an inability on my part to communicate, I will just say that I mean no affront to those whose opinions differ from mine and I feel that good communication is a benefit to both sides.
Dissension is not..

."nuff said "

 

[Texasota]

I am not a Tesla knowledgeable person so I did a little research into the Telsa service centers and showrooms in Minnesota. It appears there are three locations in the Twin Cities area and each location has a combined service center and showroom. I presume (but don't know for a fact) that your ordered Tesla is shipped to one of these locations and prepared for customer delivery.

These locations sound a lot like a dealership to me with the exception that you order your car online (instead of the showroom) and Tesla owns the showrooms and service centers. Are there other significant differences that makes these locations not "dealerships" or is this just different nomenclature?

Tesla owns these locations which means the cost of operating/maintaining them is baked into the price of your car. How is that different than a dealership? I concede that since they are all owned by Tesla there is likely more consistency in each location but they are still only as good as the local management team.

 

[NickTheEnforcer]

I think this is just a cover for FORD, if a stealership moves a lot of product they really dont care, but now they can say they sent out a letter! wow, not a lot of teeth in that!

Also the no re-sale provision the buyer signs is a joke, if you own it legally you can sell it to whomever you choose, at whatever time you choose and for whatever damn amount you choose.

Maybe FORD should address the stealerships charging over MSRP for new vehicles...

Bonus Rant:
JMO but I'm not a fan of stealerships, I usually know what I want to buy..sure they are a good place to do a final test drive, but then again I did not test drive my house before I bought it. If I had I would have known about a few little things I did not care for.

Aside from that I'd prefer if the new car experience was web-based. build it on-line in the dark with your pants off , enter any promo codes, select a payment/finance type and hit enter.

Nearly EVERY stealership I've interacted with over the past 40 years always cried that they only make money on service, so just make them the service center and maybe give them a few bucks to do final test drives with an appointment if they want to.

 

[Texasota]

I view the whole thing as a show that I have to pay for but don't want to attend. There's set-piece drama, and a little bell at the end. No matter how many times you try to explain how skilled you are, I'm never going to think anything other than "what a miserable way to spend an afternoon". Just as some people voluntarily go to 15 different stores to try on 50 different dresses because they enjoy the shopping experience: that's fine for them/you, but I'll pass.

I don't think it has to be that way, Mike. I have not bought a car as you describe since I was a youngster. I email my salesman and ask when I can drive a Ranger. He sets up a time, I drive it for as long as I want and then return it. If I want to order a Ranger, then I send him an e-mail with the exact model/options I want and he sends me the itemized cost. I come in to sign the purchase agreement and give him a deposit and he orders it. When it arrives we complete the paperwork and I drive it home.

Our local dealer is a fixed cost dealer, you can't haggle even if you want. The cost has always been way better than X-plan and is typically a small/fair amount above invoice. I consider that fair and the process is easy, painless and drama free.

 

[VAMike]

I don't think it has to be that way, Mike. I have not bought a car as you describe since I was a youngster. I email my salesman and ask when I can drive a Ranger. He sets up a time, I drive it for as long as I want and then return it. If I want to order a Ranger, then I send him an e-mail with the exact model/options I want and he sends me the itemized cost. I come in to sign the purchase agreement and give him a deposit and he orders it. When it arrives we complete the paperwork and I drive it home.

People keep talking about their dealer. What that has to do with any dealer near me, I don't know. Due to franchise agreements and protective regulations, your dealer isn't likely to set up shop down the road here.

 

[Texasota]

People keep talking about their dealer. What that has to do with any dealer near me, I don't know. Due to franchise agreements and protective regulations, your dealer isn't likely to set up shop down the road here.

The point I was making is you can avoid the drama and that miserable afternoon you described. Simply deal and communicate with them by email. I seriously doubt any franchise agreements and protective regulations prevent that.

 

[VAMike]

The point I was making is you can avoid the drama and that miserable afternoon you described. Simply deal and communicate with them by email. I seriously doubt any franchise agreements and protective regulations prevent that.

I couldn't get a local dealer to respond via email. I resorted to walking in and standing there until someone took the order. I assume they just didn't care as much about a ranger pre-order as an f150 sale right away (or, whoever was reading emails didn't actually know it was possible to order a ranger). The sales person who took the order was the new guy, of course. I think I was on my third one by the time the truck was delivered--the turnover is unreal.

Actually, I think one dealer did get back to me a couple weeks after I finally got the order in. Didn't really matter at that point.

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