Does This Warrant Buyback (Replacement)

[Porpoise Hork]

Two of the dealer oil changes, I had to demand that they do it. Both times that they took oil samples, I asked if they had changed the oil, and they said they drained enough to get it in the acceptable oil level range.

This right here is why I would not take it back to that dealership. They already had record of a serious fuel dilution issue for the engine, yet they repeatedly ignored that and tried to treat it as if it were simply a case of someone overfilling it. I hope you have alerted Ford customer care about that. There is based on what I see enough evidence to at the very least re-flash/replace the PCM and see if the issue is due to the fuel/timing maps being way out of spec.

That raises another question/thought. Do you have a custom tune on the truck?

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[MotoWojo]

This right here is why I would not take it back to that dealership. They already had record of a serious fuel dilution issue for the engine, yet they repeatedly ignored that and tried to treat it as if it were simply a case of someone overfilling it. I hope you have alerted Ford customer care about that. There is based on what I see enough evidence to at the very least re-flash/replace the PCM and see if the issue is due to the fuel/timing maps being way out of spec.

That raises another question/thought. Do you have a custom tune on the truck?

No, never been tuned, and even if I would like to in the future, this issue will probably prevent me from ever doing it as I would worry if I had issues, they would blame the tuner.

 

[Porpoise Hork]

I'd be curious to see what the oil dilution would be like running a mild tune like the 5 Star 87 octane Daily/Tow file for 1-2K miles. Then flash it back to stock to compare. Running a different tuning file with an entirely different fuel/spark map could very well provide the information needed to determine if this is a tuning issue with the PCM or a mechanical fault with the engine allowing for excessive blow-by.

 

[Robert Scott]

MotoWojo
is the woman you are dealing with at ford Donna Homes?

 

[MotoWojo]

MotoWojo
is the woman you are dealing with at ford Donna Homes?

No

 

[MotoWojo]

Well, I dropped the truck off at the dealer for another try at fixing the issue. They said the Ford Engineer has already been in touch with them and something about replacing the injectors? I said that can't be right, you have replaced all 4 injectors twice already, along with the HPFP. I am very curious as to what they are going to try next?

 

[AutobotXJ]

Well, I dropped the truck off at the dealer for another try at fixing the issue. They said the Ford Engineer has already been in touch with them and something about replacing the injectors? I said that can't be right, you have replaced all 4 injectors twice already, along with the HPFP. I am very curious as to what they are going to try next?

Maybe they need to do a seance!!! Probably as useful as a third injector swap... unless, of course, they didn’t actually replace all 4 the last two times?
Good luck and I am very interested in the outcome.

 

[geophb]

Well, I dropped the truck off at the dealer for another try at fixing the issue. They said the Ford Engineer has already been in touch with them and something about replacing the injectors? I said that can't be right, you have replaced all 4 injectors twice already, along with the HPFP. I am very curious as to what they are going to try next?

I was reading this in another post of yours. Something doesn't seem right or add up.
Either you got bad replacement injectors and HPFP or they didn't actually replace them or maybe they are damaging during install somehow. Those are the only 2 places fuel can come from to get into the oil.

All GDI can have a fuel dilution issue but not 12-13% in less than 1000 miles. At that rate if you ran a 7500+ mile interval and oil level will have more than doubled from fuel dilution. Thats crazy talk.

You drive 300miles a week if I read correctly, so short trips doesn't seem to be the issue. You have to have a leak. Its injectors or HPFP. It has to be.

 

[MotoWojo]

I was reading this in another post of yours. Something doesn't seem right or add up.
Either you got bad replacement injectors and HPFP or they didn't actually replace them or maybe they are damaging during install somehow. Those are the only 2 places fuel can come from to get into the oil.

All GDI can have a fuel dilution issue but not 12-13% in less than 1000 miles. At that rate if you ran a 7500+ mile interval and oil level will have more than doubled from fuel dilution. Thats crazy talk.

You drive 300miles a week if I read correctly, so short trips doesn't seem to be the issue. You have to have a leak. Its injectors or HPFP. It has to be.

Exactly what I was thinking and why I am curious as to what they will try next? The other source for the issue could be cylinder/piston blow-by, but the dealer said that both the compression and leak down tests passed within spec. The last time they replaced the injectors, the Ford engineer also had them inspect the HPFP, which had been replaced once already, I don't know if they removed it or what, but they had to track down a gasket for it that was on back order, which they were able to locate from another dealer. The Ford engineer also had them replace all the high pressure fuel system lines. The 12% & 13% sample results both came from samples taken when the oil level was below the twist. The level has been above the twist twice, I hate to think how bad the contamination was then, but for one of the oil changes, the oil drained out measured 7.8qts, which would equate to 26% fuel.
I dropped the truck off this past Monday and I have not heard a peep since. I will call them tomorrow for a progress report.

 

[geophb]

Exactly what I was thinking and why I am curious as to what they will try next? The other source for the issue could be cylinder/piston blow-by, but the dealer said that both the compression and leak down tests passed within spec. The last time they replaced the injectors, the Ford engineer also had them inspect the HPFP, which had been replaced once already, I don't know if they removed it or what, but they had to track down a gasket for it that was on back order, which they were able to locate from another dealer. The Ford engineer also had them replace all the high pressure fuel system lines. The 12% & 13% sample results both came from samples taken when the oil level was below the twist. The level has been above the twist twice, I hate to think how bad the contamination was then, but for one of the oil changes, the oil drained out measured 7.8qts, which would equate to 26% fuel.
I dropped the truck off this past Monday and I have not heard a peep since. I will call them tomorrow for a progress report.

Fuel dilution doesn't come from blowby directly, it would be coming from the injectors in that scenario.

Either way, you would have to have serious blow by to cause the fuel dilution you are seeing. And blow by that bad would be very noticeable and the engine would run like complete garbage. So I don't think thats the issue.

If others don't have issues this bad, then it is a fixable problem. Not an inherent design flaw. Atleast thats how I view it. So there is hope!!

 

[MotoWojo]

If others don't have issues this bad, then it is a fixable problem. Not an inherent design flaw. Atleast thats how I view it. So there is hope!!

I don't believe it is an inherent design flaw and I am sure the cause of the issue is "fixable", but it seems diagnosing the cause is challenging? The main concern I have, even if/when fixed, is how much accelerated engine wear has happened due to the oil being out of specified viscosity range over much of the past 7,000 to 9,000 miles? That is something, I am sure has happened, but quantifying that would require a tear down, so it will never be known. Is it negligible or substantial? If the current issue is corrected and I have any related engine issues, past the warranty, will it be covered? I've already been told no.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I don't believe it is an inherent design flaw and I am sure the cause of the issue is "fixable", but it seems diagnosing the cause is challenging? The main concern I have, even if/when fixed, is how much accelerated engine wear has happened due to the oil being out of specified viscosity range over much of the past 7,000 to 9,000 miles? That is something, I am sure has happened, but quantifying that would require a tear down, so it will never be known. Is it negligible or substantial? If the current issue is corrected and I have any related engine issues, past the warranty, will it be covered? I've already been told no.

Hi MotoWojo,

It is very remote, but there have been instances in the past where Ford will buy back your motor for analysis if there is enough documentation. Very, very remote chance of this but it does happen. When we launched the Modular Engine family including the V10 engine, there was a limp home mode if you lost all your coolant. For example: One of my Off Road teams, Foutz Motorsports was running a SWB F350 with a V10 when he blew out a freeze plug on the side of the motor. Engine Engineering was amazed how far Greg Foutz had to drive to get the pits, get the freeze plug hole plugged and finish the race. They sent a brand new V10 and shipped the old motor back for tear down. It was an extreme test but the teardown showed the limp mode strategy of alternating cylinders worked.

So rare, but it does happen. Do not get your hopes up but one never knows and I think you have been good at documentation.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co.

 

[MotoWojo]

Hi MotoWojo,

It is very remote, but there have been instances in the past where Ford will buy back your motor for analysis if there is enough documentation. Very, very remote chance of this but it does happen. When we launched the Modular Engine family including the V10 engine, there was a limp home mode if you lost all your coolant. For example: One of my Off Road teams, Foutz Motorsports was running a SWB F350 with a V10 when he blew out a freeze plug on the side of the motor. Engine Engineering was amazed how far Greg Foutz had to drive to get the pits, get the freeze plug hole plugged and finish the race. They sent a brand new V10 and shipped the old motor back for tear down. It was an extreme test but the teardown showed the limp mode strategy of alternating cylinders worked.

So rare, but it does happen. Do not get your hopes up but one never knows and I think you have been good at documentation.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co.

Ford Customer Service just called me today. The dealer has had my truck since Monday and I was told they have done everything the Ford Engineer has asked, but have not figured it out yet. I was told I would be contacted next Tuesday for a progress report.

The rep is also inquiring about a buyback and originally told me I should know something by today, but I was told that they will let me know the status on that, also, when they call on Tuesday.

 

[GregM]

Ford Customer Service just called me today. The dealer has had my truck since Monday and I was told they have done everything the Ford Engineer has asked, but have not figured it out yet. I was told I would be contacted next Tuesday for a progress report.

The rep is also inquiring about a buyback and originally told me I should know something by today, but I was told that they will let me know the status on that, also, when they call on Tuesday.

Moto I hope that they can fix it. But I understand if you have an uneasy feeling with this truck
it's best if they take it back. Hoping things turn to your advantage.

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