Buffers/Polishers

[LightingBlue]

For those who think that their orbital is only for painted surfaces, there are oh-so-many-other reasons to have a good orbital handy. And personally why I do NOT want to have a large-throw orbital pattern (which is another topic entirely)

Last weekend I decided to blow up my spine and do the chrome and stainless steel polishing with the handy Porter Cable 7472 orbital. Concrete floors and I no longer get along, but as i'm dropping this car 4" very soon, I didn't want to deal with this when she is slammed.

Car to be worked on, my personal 1951 Chevrolet Fleetline;

Gravel guard with just steel wool and acid wash to clear surface contaminates (Stainless steel)

After 2 stage polish with 2 stages of wool pads

The chrome & stainless steel polishing kit. Could use a few more chrome polish compounds, but it works well enough on the '51 Fleetline

If you want to follow some other adventures in detailing which include the Ranger, here's our thread on the truck.
SCAB build, Seattle WA

Sponsored

 

[JaysOnTheEDGE]

another vote for the porter cable 7424XP great buffer. i used it with the meguiars DA paint correction kit https://www.meguiars.com/profession...r-correction-system-5-starter-kit-dmckit5-kit works great

 

[LightingBlue]

I've used both the Porter Cable and the Chemical Guys equipment. The PC has less vibration to me, but both work extremely well.

I would be very curious to see what backing plates you are using on each of the orbitals. Can you please provide a side-by-side comparison photo?

Backing plate makes a HUGE difference in vibrations and generally the backing plate that comes with an orbital (Porter Cable included!) is utter garbage and should be replaced as soon as possible.

There are more backing plates out there than people would imagine!

Backing Plates at Auto Geek

 

[Ranger8729]

I would be very curious to see what backing plates you are using on each of the orbitals. Can you please provide a side-by-side comparison photo?

Whatever the standard plate is that comes with each machine. They work well enough for my occasional use. I just notice my arms were more tired with the Chemical Guys polisher. Or it could be that I'm getting older...

I see some Poorboys World in that pic - they also have good stuff to work with. Love the Bold n Bright on my tires.

 

[Sashimi_Moto]

I 2nd the Porter Cable - while I'm no pro and haven't used everything the industry has to offer I can say the PC is quality piece and worth every penny.

edit: I also use the Griots pads - correcting, finishing, waxing.

 

[LightingBlue]

edit: I also use the Griots pads - correcting, finishing, waxing.

As a fellow Washingtonian (now on lockdown), I never recommend the Griots orbitals. They're on what, their 9th generation of orbital over the same period of time that the trusty Porter Cable has soldiered on.

I've purchased 3 different generations (not in sequential order) of their orbital and stacked them head to head against the Porter Cable. Griots are either wayyyyyyyyyy too much torque, heat, vibration or a combination of all three compared to the Porter Cable. Two of them they willingly took back for store credit because apparently I chose their "bad generations" to try out, and the third I sold to a friend wanting to learn detailing. They stand behind their products like a champ, but two of those generations should have never made it to market.

Apparently this 9th gen or BOSS or whatever they call it these days, is the "best they have ever made".... But seriously, NINE generations to still not benchmark against the same model that's surpassed everything you've made????

Full disclosure: I love Griots Garage and use a number of their chemical products and especially their fun garage gadgets and am a regular at their garage sale going back to the last few years at their Fife location. Not bagging on them as a company. Just that they can't figure out the orbital game.

Yes, this is off-topic to your post, but it's on-topic for this thread

 

[LightingBlue]

This past weekend I helped a friend by doing a few days of paint correction and preparation for ceramic coating.

He also has the Porter Cable 7424xp so we compared them by the build tags and I was quite surprised to see that my unit, with a build date of 2006 was labeled "Type 1" and his unit with a build date of 2016 is labeled "Type 2". There were clearly some changes to the unit's operation between "types".

- Type 1 is
-Very linear in speed settings. 1-2 are worthless, 3 spreads material and perfect for wax application, 4-6 are for paint correction depending on your pad/compound combination and desired effect, speed dials up predictably
-Quite a bit louder during operation (It seems the same volume as it has always been, however, i'm going to take it apart and see if there is some schmoo built up inside and that the counter-weight is torqued to spec)

-Type 2 is:
-not linear in speed at all. 1-3 are essentially worthless. 4 spreads material and perfect for wax application, 5 for very lite paint correction, 6 is where you'll be most of the time. Speed does not dial up predictably or at least in a way i've ever experienced in a Porter Cable unit
-much quieter
-Feels like you're taxing the motor at all times as you're working in speed 6 a lot
-feels like less torque


Overall impressions:
Personally, I really enjoy my "type 1". Yea It's louder, vibrates a liiiiiiitle bit more, but you get reliable results and it performs flawlessly over thousands of hours without maintenance. If I had only ever owned a Type 2 unit, I would be more inclined to try other brands of random orbitals (Still staying away from Griots Garage orbitals).

I believe the Type 1 Porter Cable 7424xp has been the benchmark entry-level orbital that Griots hasn't bested in their 9 generations. The type 2 feels like a slightly lesser unit.

 

[quangdog]

Y'all are likely going to laugh at me, but I bought this to do my first ever paint correction: https://amzn.to/3fpBMuZ I've unpacked it, plugged it in and turned it on, but not used it to polish anything yet. The variable speed range seems very good to me (lowest setting is really slow, highest setting is really, really fast) and it does not vibrate like crazy, get super hot, or make any ear-splitting noises.

I want to keep my truck looking fantastic, but I'm a complete noob to any sort of detail work. I've had the truck for little over a month now, and still have less than 1000 miles on the odometer. I've been learning all about prepping the finish for both PPF as well as ceramic coat, and know it starts with getting the paint (well, clearcoat) as perfect as possible. My truck's current finish is pretty good - only very very light swirls in a few areas, as well as some hard water spots. My plan is to use this polisher along with these pads (https://amzn.to/2WciTUN) to do very light paint correction just to take out the swirls and hard water deposits. Once the paint is perfect, I'll apply some laser-cut PPF to all the forward-facing surfaces (front of roof, A-pillars, bumper, grill, headlights, fog lights, mirrors, etc) and then ceramic coat the entire thing. I'm planning to set aside 2 full days to get it all done. Maybe this weekend.

Since some folks here seem to really know what they are talking about, before I begin I have 2 questions:

1) Am I a moron for thinking I can handle this myself? I'm a handy guy, mechanically inclined, with a good eye for detail. I'll take it slow, be careful, and check my work often. Do you think I'll ruin the finish on my truck with the above tools?

2) There is an absolute dizzying array of polishing compounds available, and they all claim to be the absolute best thing money can buy. If I just wander into my local AutoZone and grab a bottle of Meguiars, will I be unhappy with the results? Is there an obvious head-and-shoulders-above-the-rest option for polishing compound? As I said above, I don't need heavy correction or to remove scratches, etc. My finish is already quite good - it's just not quite perfect. I'm also not planning to open a detailing business or anything. This may be the first and last vehicle I ever do all this work on myself.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[pa-fatboy]

I have 2 questions:

1) Am I a moron for thinking I can handle this myself? I'm a handy guy, mechanically inclined, with a good eye for detail. I'll take it slow, be careful, and check my work often. Do you think I'll ruin the finish on my truck with the above tools?

2) There is an absolute dizzying array of polishing compounds available, and they all claim to be the absolute best thing money can buy. If I just wander into my local AutoZone and grab a bottle of Meguiars, will I be unhappy with the results? Is there an obvious head-and-shoulders-above-the-rest option for polishing compound? As I said above, I don't need heavy correction or to remove scratches, etc. My finish is already quite good - it's just not quite perfect. I'm also not planning to open a detailing business or anything. This may be the first and last vehicle I ever do all this work on myself.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Hello Kimball, I don’t think you are off base at all. It sounds to me like you have your head right where it should be. Minus the ceramic coat, you are not talking about anything that would hurt your finish.

At less than 1,000 miles, this is a great time to do a through paint correction and apply the base coating you will work with to keep your truck shining. Frequent cleaning and upkeep will make it MUCH easier the keep the brake dust from damaging your rims, cleaning bugs and tar off your paint. For me, I really enjoy getting in a clean vehicle and driving around.

as far as THE BEST compounds to use. You will get people swearing by this and that and that’s all they have used forever. I like experimenting.

www.autogeek.net and www.chemicalguys.com are two site I have found helpful over the years. They also post videos on how to use the product and will give you proper techniques to incorporate into your detailing routine.

My soap box: Personally, I now swear by my foam cannon and the two bucket method to clean the car before any next steps. I won’t describe them to you. There is a ton of information available to you to google. For paint correction and removing swirls. My advice would be to use as gentle a cleaner or compound as you can to get the look you are after. if you don’t know what you are doing, don’t go after it with the most aggressive compounds you have initially.

If you do not have a good flashlight to shine on your car to see the paint swirls, they are worth picking up. They are helpful for identifying swirls and showing you when you have taken care of them. Just google paint swirl flash light to get initial info on technique. A hint I can give you, a $25 led flashlight from Amazon does as good a job as the multi-hundred dollar flashlights made by the buffer companies. I’m currently using a flash light that is an XML-T6 w/2000 lumens.

what I like best is spending time in the garage listening to 70’s southern rock and cleaning my vehicles. It could take me 6-8 hours to complete one. I’m not in a hurry.

most of all enjoy yourself. Experiment and see what works for you, P

 

[quangdog]

Hey Rich,

Thank you very much for the response. I didn't mention that I already bought a foam canon, and have been using the 2 bucket method to wash the truck about once a week since I bought it.

I've just about convinced myself to install a hose bib in my garage off the utility sink I have there because that water is softened by my softener, while my outside hose bibs are not. I'd much rather wash my cars with soft water and avoid hard water spots entirely if it's not too much trouble.

I own an assortment of very powerful LED flashlights, but I do need to google up the correct technique - I assume it's all about the angle/distance you hold the light from the surface of the paint in relation to your eyes. Thanks for the reminder.

You said: "Minus the ceramic coat, you are not talking about anything that would hurt your finish." -do you mean that a ceramic coat could potentially damage the finish? Or did you just mean that you don't have experience with them? I've been researching for weeks, and while I've found all kinds of very loud voices screaming about how their particular ceramic product is better than others, I have not found any indication that applying a ceramic product can be harmful. If you have more insight I'd love to hear it.

Thanks again for the advice - I really appreciate it!

 

[LightingBlue]

Yes, ceramic coating can potentially damage your finish if done incorrectly. There is actually ceramic in it, after all. No matter the size of particles or their function (my soap box is that you're paying for a hand-applied coating which dries harder than standard catalyzed clear coat, the "ceramic" micro powder is there to make you think you bought something special and jack up the price).

If it's your first go of a random orbital, you'll be 2 days into the truck before you know it and not have gotten all that far. Likely, based on the amazon reviews, your pads will have fallen apart before then anyway. That means it's beer-o'clock!

As for polishes, and since you're starting out not having any experience detailing with an orbital and paint correcting compound, you should remember that you have a brand new vehicle. How much paint correction could it possibly need at this point???? If the answer is "I don't see any swirls, I just want the proper paint condition for "ceramic" coatings, then you really won't be doing any paint correction and a cleaner-wax would be an excellent way to go as it offers almost no paint correction, but the protection you desire, plus gloss (notice I have now deviated you from ceramic coatings). Something such as Lime Prime would be a solid option, or others in that type of product. If you want that "all the cool kids have it!" coating, then you can use Lime Prime to branch your search out from there for other very low-cut compounds that won't damage your paint unless you're really trying to.

Lime Prime

If you're dead set on learning how to use an orbital, paint prep, ceramic coating and clear bra, then you're better served doing a LOT of youtube watching and preparing for this endeavor. Not to say that this isn't a great place to ask questions and there aren't knowledgeable people on these topics on this forum, but it's not a detailing forum, nor is it providing you answers in real-time or with a video to educate and train.

I suggest you visit an actual detailing forum to get the specifics you'll need to finish your projects.

Autopia detailing forum

 

[Clump]

Reading all this with great interest.

My shadow black Ranger arrived on the dealer's lot in June 2019 and I bought it in March 2020. The paint was a mess when I picked it up. The dealer offered to put their $795 (LOL) Luxcare on it free, but after reading about it I knew I could do better on my own.

The paint literally felt like sandpaper. First wash with Dawn, then Iron-X, then clay towel got it smooth.

Lots of swirls and some decent scratches thanks to the lot animals and their "washing".

Next cleaner wax, then wax, finally Meguiars fast finish. It looks 1000X better!

The swirls are pretty much gone, but the scratches are too deep for the hand applied cleaner wax. There's enough gloss that they're pretty well hidden, but I want to get it better.

I've watched a bunch of videos, bought a Harbor Freight DA polisher and some SPTA pads that were well reviewed.

I plan to start with Meguiars ultimate compound with medium cut pads on the roof and hood, where the worst of the scratches are and move on to Chemical Guys VSS or Turtle 53412 Hybrid on polishing pads for the whole truck. Final finish will be Turtle 53409 Hybrid spray, which I used on my GF's black Jeep Compass with amazing results.

I have all the materials and a plan, but no machine polishing experience. Hope to change that this weekend. Any advice is always appreciated!

 

[LightingBlue]

I plan to start with Meguiars ultimate compound with medium cut pads on the roof and hood, where the worst of the scratches are and move on to Chemical Guys VSS or Turtle 53412 Hybrid on polishing pads for the whole truck. Final finish will be Turtle 53409 Hybrid spray, which I used on my GF's black Jeep Compass with amazing results.

I have all the materials and a plan, but no machine polishing experience. Hope to change that this weekend. Any advice is always appreciated!

Sounds like you got one that had been through hell on the way to your driveway!

The better half's Ranger came in surprisingly good shape. However, the dealership and general manager were told that in no uncertain terms was their detail "crew" to touch the car in any way and that we expected to receive the truck exactly as it came off the train. Ford uses surprisingly little protective wrap in transit, but it was in good enough shape for just a mild glossing compound.


I can't tell if you've already purchased those compounds or not from your post. If you haven't, my only input on those is that theChemical GUys VSS is pretty difficult to work with and you can achieve better results and easier use/removal by using Menzerna Super Finish 3500.

Super Finish 3500

For an insane amount of gloss and shine, plus reasonable depth for an artificial wax that goes on AND comes off almost as easily as a spray-on wax, there is no better sealant than Wolfgang v3.0. Not only is it super easy to put on/take off, but it won't stain your plastics and has excellent durability considering it's results. The only mark against it is that you need 12 hours of dry conditions after using it for the product to fully cure, so you have to pick your weekend to do your detailing work.

Having used about 3 bottles of v3.0 in my lifetime (starting with their v1.0 and also 2.0), their product description is 100% accurate. For mind bending results, top this with a carnuba "puck wax" such as Pinnacle Souveran or even a much cheaper option such as Poorboys Natty.

"Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0 will alter your perceptions of paint sealants forever. The glossy, liquid-like shimmer enhances all types and colors of paint. No other synthetic wax or paint sealant gives your vehicle the gloss, the depth, and the protection "

Wolfgang v3.0 sealant

Pinnacle Souveran "puck" wax

Poorboys Natty "puck" wax (works well above it's pay grade)

 

[pa-fatboy]

You said: "Minus the ceramic coat, you are not talking about anything that would hurt your finish." -do you mean that a ceramic coat could potentially damage the finish? Or did you just mean that you don't have experience with them? I've been researching for weeks, and while I've found all kinds of very loud voices screaming about how their particular ceramic product is better than others, I have not found any indication that applying a ceramic product can be harmful. If you have more insight I'd love to hear

LIGHTNINGBLUE: I think you are my brother from a different mother when it comes to detailing! I am aligned with your comments. I also am a fan of Wolfgang products. I have just reordered what I needed to do a complete paint correction using Wolfgang product and some car pro mixed in their.

Kimball, Yes, LT is correct on how ceramic coatings could possibly damage your paint. If not applied correctly and you let it flash without wiping off the excess it will look terrible. I have not seen this happen, I’ve only read about it and saw pictures in detailing forums. Some say you can not run your vehicle through a standard car wash as the Chemicals may stain your finish. I have not seen this myself. LT is also correct that a lot of your questions can be answered on a detailing forum. I joined one years ago that is associated with auto geek. Go to their website for a link to the forum and join. I’m a good weekend warrior that has been detailing cars since the 80’s. But it’s just a hobby for. There are pro’s on that web site that are happy to talk detailing. Mike Phelps will answer your questions some times as well. Mike is the detailing czar as far as I am concerned, His advise and technique video’s are great.

below is my Mustang after it had a ceramic coat applied to it in Oct 2016. It’s relation to our trucks is the paint. It is the Ford Magnetic Grey. I told the sales guy to not let the dealership prep the car for me at all. I would take care of it. I did the paint correction, but then handed it off to a professional detailer that was certified to install Modesta ceramic finishes. IMHO, Modesta is the best ceramic out there, you and I can not buy it, it has to be installed buy a certified detailer on their product. That detailer has become my friend now and has given me great advice over the last 4 years. Each time it gets washed, it gets another spray coating of carpro reload to freshen up the ceramic coating. My Mustang still looks like this and the coating is still working after 4 years. It has a 10 year life span according to the manufacturer,

if you are going to apply your ceramic with one of the ones out there, just watch the video’s on how to use it. Maybe practice on something else that you don’t care about. I have the hood from my 2014 Mustang, magnetic grey, that was pelted with hail. It was damaged so bad it had to be replaced. Can’t fix aluminum body panel parts. I told the shop to save the hood for me, most of the time it lives on my garage wall. Sometimes, it’s used as my Ginny pig.

Something to think about, I bought a buffer when I first started that was over $350 dollars and I still have it today. It still works like it did when new. Good tools will serve you well. You spent a lot on that truck. You spending a lot buying good detailing products, buy quality tools.

I can’t sling my original buffer like I did in the 80’s, because of its weight, but it’s still great on the horizontal surfaces. It’s a Gem buffer with an 18 inch pad. The fricking unit has a cast aluminum body. I think it weights near 20 Lbs. using it on vertical surfaces (the sides) is like throwing a bowling ball 50-60 times for each side. The unit is a complete monster. It only has an on/off switch. One speed. I love it!

here is a short video from the same picture session with my daughter:ModestaMustangMovingVideo

happy detailing!

View attachment 41159

 

[Clump]

@LightingBlue - Thanks! I ordered the Menerza.

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