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Think I Threw a Rod....

t4thfavor

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Who cares if they are tired of him, does it even matter. He paid for a product (tear down / diagnosis), now cough it up. If they want to "fire him" as a customer then refund his money and he can use it to go somewhere else.

I'm all for firing a customer (because some can be insufferable douche bags), but you don't get to keep the money and the product.

Companies that are quick to cash the check but slow to deliver are just as bad as terrible customers.

Edit: I could totally be that guy if my bank pissed me off I'd show up to deposit $5,000 in pennies.
I did something like that, not out of revenge, and not that many. It was maybe like 200$ worth of assorted non-penny change. Most of which was already rolled. They told me I had to break the rolls and put it through the coinstar machine in the lobby.

We tried 3 banks where we had long standing accounts, and they all turned us away...

We eventually went through the whole 200$ by going through the U-Scans at a local grocery store (over time)
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dtech

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Here's what Anthony at @Livernois Motorsports says:

"Regarding adding an aftermarket downpipe, a tune update requires some adjustments to the rear o2 sensor readings to take that higher flowing catalyst into account along with some other proprietary calibration changes to optimize performance further. Since these vehicles are speed density and do not run a traditional Ford MAF like a 5.0L mustang would for example, there are no tune adjustments needed for many of the common bolt on mods that affect air / exhaust flow including charge pipes, cold air intakes, and cat back exhausts as well. Speed density vehicles such as this come factory equipped with a wideband o2 and MAP sensor based monitoring systems that allow the to adapt and adjust on the fly as needed where the ECU is able to adjust timing and boost accordingly to take full advantage of cooler more dense air charge entering the system. The most common mods that do entail new tune adjustments would be the higher flow downpipes, cooler thermostats, methanol injection, upgraded turbos, fuel systems, etc."
I was under the impression MAF based systems are more adaptable to tunes, but I think most of what is being said above applies to MAF based as well.
 
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OFC Ranger

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We tried 3 banks where we had long standing accounts, and they all turned us away...
"Oh you won't take my legitimate us currency? Close all my accounts. I want all my money in cash and in $1.00 bills - Call me back once you round up enough dollar bills for pickup. No sorry - I am refusing your check."

There are a plethora of ways to absolutely burn a companies time when they have something of mine in their possession and no contract on paper dictating how it is to be dispensed back to me.

Don't ask me how I come up with this stuff. I can be a little twisted when crossed wrong. However sometimes you are given no choice when you are the little guy and they are the Goliath.
 

JAKE2.3

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Here's what Anthony at @Livernois Motorsports says:

"Regarding adding an aftermarket downpipe, a tune update requires some adjustments to the rear o2 sensor readings to take that higher flowing catalyst into account along with some other proprietary calibration changes to optimize performance further. Since these vehicles are speed density and do not run a traditional Ford MAF like a 5.0L mustang would for example, there are no tune adjustments needed for many of the common bolt on mods that affect air / exhaust flow including charge pipes, cold air intakes, and cat back exhausts as well. Speed density vehicles such as this come factory equipped with a wideband o2 and MAP sensor based monitoring systems that allow the to adapt and adjust on the fly as needed where the ECU is able to adjust timing and boost accordingly to take full advantage of cooler more dense air charge entering the system. The most common mods that do entail new tune adjustments would be the higher flow downpipes, cooler thermostats, methanol injection, upgraded turbos, fuel systems, etc."
Correct. That's a lot more eloquently put than what I mentioned above (somewhere in this thread), but completely accurate. I did forget to mention meth or drop in turbos, but at that point, one better know that they should be tuning. I've had a catback and an intake tube on my mustang for quite some time now, but I just recently tuned it for the newly installed intercooler. Not that I needed to, but I wanted to take advantage of the cooler air.

I was under the impression MAF based systems are more adaptable to tunes, but I think most of what is being said above applies to MAF based as well.
I think they both respond well to tuning. MAF systems require tuning though for simpler mods (intake) because they're not as "smart" as the newer speed density systems. Essentially they don't learn as well on the fly.
 

NeptuneRanger

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For those of us with mechanical talent further down the food chain can you explain why we are at 14k complete new engine replacement ? Surely the components hanging off the block are still good. Or is it a new motor gets your warranty back for the rest of the truck ? Not sure 14k is worth it for that reason especially if you plan to buy a Raptor soon. Just curious is there no middle ground option to repair the motor ?

I do understand finance, contracts, liability and corporate behavior well. Many decisions are made on the outstanding customers as a whole and precedence is a huge factor. Even if you are the best dude on the planet, Ford can’t open up the door to precedence on mods. All they have to prove is you violated the warranty terms and that is it. What caused what is not material once you violate those terms. I have no doubt the tuning company is in your corner. Reputation and a new motor are on the line since you paid for their warranty.

I truly wish you the best of luck, I believe you could sell you two year old truck with a new motor if you choose to go that route, just explain your story. Either that or sell it as is, you might be surprised what it is worth to those who would part it out in an environment where parts are hard to come by. As is the case often, it all comes down to money and knowing when to cut your losses, learn and move on.
 


dtech

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Even if you are the best dude on the planet, Ford can’t open up the door to precedence on mods.
Surely they can - another post that seemed to have knowledge upstream in the thread indicated as much, all a mfg has to say is that the failure wasn't connected to the mods - should they be inclined to do so, which doesn't seem to be the case in this case. Same thing with a "goodwill repair" when a vehicle is out of warranty - sometimes this happens, other times it doesn't, it's at the discretion of the mfg.

Warranties can and often contain explicit language essentially serves to give the end user certain rights, in this post I've seen copies of Ford's warranties that clearly indicate certain actions void the warranty, have not seen any address as to what the tuner's warranty T&Cs are and what the owner paid Ford to provide in the teardown, if it's not in writing as to the deliverables then you might not be pleased with the end result.
 

NeptuneRanger

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Surely they can - another post that seemed to have knowledge upstream in the thread indicated as much, all a mfg has to say is that the failure wasn't connected to the mods - should they be inclined to do so, which doesn't seem to be the case in this case. Same thing with a "goodwill repair" when a vehicle is out of warranty - sometimes this happens, other times it doesn't, it's at the discretion of the mfg.

Warranties can and often contain explicit language essentially serves to give the end user certain rights, in this post I've seen copies of Ford's warranties that clearly indicate certain actions void the warranty, have not seen any address as to what the tuner's warranty T&Cs are and what the owner paid Ford to provide in the teardown, if it's not in writing as to the deliverables then you might not be pleased with the end result.
dtech, I agree with much of what you just said. Can yes, will is another thing. Sometimes companies will acquiesce if bad press makes the calculation right, for example a senior citizen one mile or one day out of warranty. Generally speaking, not so.

I think the diagnostic fee and result was bogus and OP should fight for a refund on that. The tuning company warranty T&Cs would be real interesting here, my guess self insured on that, hopefully they will step up. OP does likely have recourse if the damage can be proven as a result of the tune. However, OP drove a long time without an issue. Tuner warranty presumably only covers their work and is not a substitute or comprehensive like an extended warranty. The more I think this through the more I am worried OP will fall between two stools. Sincerely hoping for a good outcome.
 
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Rp930

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In a case with so many blatant aftermarket modifications it would be difficult to recommend any goodwill for the repair. The reps for Ford have responsibilities also. Throwing goodwill dollars at this repair would likely get a whole lot of scrutiny.
 

Rp930

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The diagnostic “fee” was up to him. They told him it wasn’t covered and he wanted to know more so they offered to tear it down on his dime. When I was a rep I always advised against this kind of scenario. It rarely if ever changed the outcome and now the guy has an even bigger bill. It came up the most for me when someone overheated the clutch. If the pressure plate showed even wear and no mechanical problems in the rest of the system, customer pay.
 

AzScorpion

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Warranties can and often contain explicit language essentially serves to give the end user certain rights, in this post I've seen copies of Ford's warranties that clearly indicate certain actions void the warranty, have not seen any address as to what the tuner's warranty T&Cs are and what the owner paid Ford to provide in the teardown, if it's not in writing as to the deliverables then you might not be pleased with the end result.
This is why I didn't get all caught up in worrying about a warranty when I tuned mine. There are always so many little variables that "could" void the warranty. IIRC the 5star warranty was $1,000 and I would hope they're doing everything they can and working with Ford to get the OP a new motor. I mean it's been almost 2 months now and if it were me I'd have to of rented another truck and absorb that expense too.

How much longer is he going to be without his truck 1-3-6 months? I know things don't happen overnight but the longer this drags out the more expenses he will incur if he had/has to rent another truck. If 5star doesn't come through now he's out that $1,000 + the $1,600 he paid Ford he's now close to half the cost of the crate motor that was posted a while back. I really hope this works out for him but this is why I "tune at my own risk" and not pay for these aftermarket warranties because sometimes the aggravation and bs just isn't worth it.
 

dtech

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In a case with so many blatant aftermarket modifications it would be difficult to recommend any goodwill for the repair. The reps for Ford have responsibilities also. Throwing goodwill dollars at this repair would likely get a whole lot of scrutiny.
I reference goodwill repair only as an example of leeway a mfg has - at their discretion. I had an alternator go out on a vehicle 800 miles after warranty expired and the the repair was done good will - no concern about precedent setting as often times when the warranty is up one can be sol. In no way was I suggesting a goodwill in this specific incident. But if Ford wished to do it they certainly could. As someone mentioned - a fair amount of detailed information is lacking .
 

TORQUERULES

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HI Folks,

Okay...I have taken a backseat to this tread, even the off tangent stuff.

Before I take a nice Scotch night cap.

1. There are folks that want root cause analysis...including me.
2. There are folks with tunes that are fearful of the same outcome and being in the same boat, Costly on their nickle.
3. There are folks questioning the OP's demeanor with the dealer.
4. there are folks questioning the Dealers demeanor with OP.
5. there are folks questioning the timing of the results and wondering if this whole thing is true.
6. there are folks questioning why Torrie has not weighed in. Maybe waiting for Root Cause?
7. there are folks that want to know why a field service Engineer is not involved...me included.
8. there are folks that want to know Ford's position on aftermarket tunes...me included.
9. Did Op run the engine with out oil?

Right now we do not know if a rod was thrown. Was a bearing spun? Did a rod bolt break. Did the rod snap? Was there block damage? So on and so on.

Those of you with a tune have a pucker factor of which you have to deal and the need to justify it will not happen to you.

Where this goes will take some time and the OPs postings. Sad he is experiencing this, but to shoot him as the root cause remains to be seen. We really need an unbiased 3rd party...which does not exist....

The thing is there are now a ton of tuned Rangers running around without any problems.

I am leaning toward a base engine problem (Ford fault) and a very, very, very rare problem that the OP suffered.

Okay....Time for a Single Malt Scotch night cap!

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
How is Torrie from Unleashed tuning involved in this? I have not read every post as it has gotten off topic a few times. Lol.
 

P. A. Schilke

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How is Torrie from Unleashed tuning involved in this? I have not read every post as it has gotten off topic a few times. Lol.
Hi Matt,

5 Star and Torrie hold the warranty

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co.
 

Doc

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How does Torrie hold the warranty ?
What does that mean, I’m not aware of an Unleashed Warranty ..
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