Mazda and Ford

[TJC]

Just replaced our 2003 Nissan Maxima with a 2023 Mazda CX-5 Turbo. We drove the 2020 Ranger over to pick it up and the wife drove the CX-5 home. Took it out this morning for a run to a local farm for veggies and fruits.

First impressions
Smooth and refined. Power delivery is measured and deliberate. You have confidence in the drive train. No unexpected surges or jerks going up in speed or coming to a stop. It is quiet, and handles itself well on the road. Controls are well thought out and functional. The gauge pod is a thing of engineering beauty. Simple and functional. No touch screen per se (I prefer controls over touch screen tech in a car), but the windshield heads up display is very nice. I liked the heated / cooled seats, but find the seats themselves are a little too stiff (my only complaint). The 6 speed automatic is simply superb, and well mated to the 2.5l 4 cyl turbo. AWD is very nice as well. I hopefully will get the 20 years out of this car that I got out of the Maxima. Oh, No Auto Stop Start!

You can sense the thoughtfulness in the design integration in the CX-5.

I wish Ford had the mindset of Mazda.

I like my 2020 Ranger. I like it a lot, but it is not in the same class as Mazda when it comes to fit and finish, thoughtfulness of design, and integration of technology.

I think maybe Ford has made too many compromises in engineering design decisions and quality. They could learn a few things from Mazda.

After studying the CX-5, I worried about the complexity of the Cylinder Deactivation in the Normally Aspirated 2.5l engine. Mazda introduced this into the engine around 2018, but I am still uncomfortable with it. So I opted for the Turbo which does not have Cylinder Deactivation.

The MX-5 2.5l engine version is what I really wanted - Normally Aspirated without the Cylinder Deactivation complexities.

Time will tell if I have chosen wisely.

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[Frenchy]

Let me remind you that you are comparing a pickup truck to an SUV. That is like comparing a Yugo to a Rolls Royce.

I won't argue that yes the Ranger should have the transmission tuning refined from the factory, but we have what we have.

 

[TJC]

Let me remind you that you are comparing a pickup truck to an SUV. That is like comparing a Yugo to a Rolls Royce.

I won't argue that yes the Ranger should have the transmission tuning refined from the factory, but we have what we have.

No need to remind me.

Having a pickup with a suspect (or simply poorly tuned) transmission and poorly designed driveshaft, and a climate distribution box that warps when the heat is turned on has nothing to do with classes of vehicles. But then again maybe your Yugo analogy is closer to reality than I first thought! It too was a poorly designed and executed product (in almost every aspect of its creation). I don't think my 2020 Ranger is anywhere near that bad, but it definitely has its own design/engineering flaws.

I think the Honda Ridgeline is a well designed truck. Better than the Maverick and the Ranger. I am not talking about capabilities, but of engineering design, implementation, and resulting reliability.

I also think my 2005 Ranger has better design integration than my 2020 Ranger. The transmission is better matched to the 4.0l V6 (Thanks Phil!). Although the 2005 has nowhere near the technical specs, its design is cleaner and much better implemented.

I think Ford has lost a step in the last 15 years. Maybe they simply tried to do too much with the latest technology. ?

 

[WhyNot21]

We've had my wife's CX-5 Signature since 12/18 and I've had my Ranger Lariat since 4/21. The fit and finish on the Mazda is far superior than that of my Ranger. Mazda is trying to compete with Acura and Lexus at a cheaper price point. The Ranger is competing for functionality. I would never take the CX-5 off-road, load it full of mulch, or try and tow anything with it.

I've been very pleased with both vehicles. Neither has ever let us down. We just chose to drive the vehicle that fits our needs at the time and don't look back. Trying to compare the two is silly to me.

 

[TJC]

OK... Let's look at one simple difference that makes my point. The transmission shifter.

The CX-5 has an lighted indicator at the left side of the shifter that displays the drive mode selected. It also displays this information on the the gauge pod.

Now let's look at the Ranger. My 2020 Ranger has the same lighted indicator on the left side of the shifter, but it DOES NOT display the mode selected. That appears only on the gauge pod cluster.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the functional utility of the vehicle. It has everything to do with human machine interface of each vehicle. For whatever reason, Ford simply did not follow through with the engineering design.

The reason does not matter. But the final result does matter.

Build a million dollar home.... leave off the door knobs, light switches, and faucets, and the house simply isn't habitable! The last .5% cost matters. The same types of decisions were made on the driveshaft and transmission shift patterns.

Check out the difference in the headlights between the Ranger and the CX-5.
I have optimal vision on both the left and right side of the road with the CX-5. The lighting on the Ranger in those areas is very poor. Meaning one has difficulty seeing where one is going when turning at night on country back roads.. I run my fog lights on my Ranger in a vain attempt to view those areas under the conditions stated above.

These points have nothing to do with the purpose of the vehicle.

It has everything to do with basic functionality common to all vehicles.

 

[Markubis]

You're comparing a brand new car to a 2 to 3 year old car?

Hmmmm....

 

[D Fresh]

My old lady drives a CX-5 too.

It's a 2016 though, NA as the turbo didn't release till the new gen.

It's a good little car. Low on power but the 6spd Auto uses it well enough. Hard to find a CUV nowadays that doesn't use a CVT.

The lane alerts are better emplemented in her Mazda than my Ranger. The leather is nicer. Fit and finish is miles ahead on the Mazda.

But Mazda seat heaters SUCK. Put them on high and you MIGHT feel them in 20 minutes.

The little Mazda handles well though. The process of manually shifting the auto is more enjoyable in the Mazda as well. The CX-5 is also very stable and predictable in the snow and ice.

That being said. If we go anywhere together we take my Ranger or my Chevy.

 

[ControlNode]

I think these are things related to the origins of the current Ranger though. Outside the US a truck is just that, a truck. Its job is more about doing truck things well than doing car things (fit, finish, comfort) well. When this Ranger was made the US market was not part of the plan so it is more truck like than even the older US Ranger that people were using as primary car. When it was brought to the US they tried to improve it some, but without being designed from start to finish, or redoing the existing work on a part that mostly worked it was never going to be great fit/finish like you'd expect in a car. I think the new Ranger coming out later in the year will likely have a much better interior since from the start the US market was part of the plan, so odds are the design teams for this market had more design input to make it "better" for this market where lots of people use trucks as cars most of the time.

 

[WhyNot21]

...

Check out the difference in the headlights between the Ranger and the CX-5.
I have optimal vision on both the left and right side of the road with the CX-5. The lighting on the Ranger in those areas is very poor. Meaning one has difficulty seeing where one is going when turning at night on country back roads.. I run my fog lights on my Ranger in a vain attempt to view those areas under the conditions stated above.

These points have nothing to do with the purpose of the vehicle.

It has everything to do with basic functionality common to all vehicles.

Our CX-5 has the active headlights that turn along with the steering wheel. To me, they're more of a gimmick, but always grab my attention.

As far as basic headlight function, I can actually see better out of the Ranger. I opted for the Lariat due to it coming with LED headlights. Better visibility is one of the reasons why we take the Ranger on long road trips. That, and the fact that it's far more comfortable to sit in for long periods of time than the Mazda. The Mazda is way more fun to cruise around town, though.

It seems like maybe you should be more upset at the person that researched your purchase, than Ford. ?

 

[D Fresh]

That, and the fact that it's far more comfortable to sit in for long periods of time than the Mazda.

Forgot about that.

The Mazda seats are firm, which I'm not against. But couple that with the shitty seat heaters and a "bad back," and long drives aren't great.

 

[ControlNode]

Our CX-5 has the active headlights that turn along with the steering wheel. To me, they're more of a gimmick, but always grab my attention.

My Focus has the turning headlights as well, I can tell you, blasting around mountains roads at 2am they are a welcome feature.

 

[TJC]

Our CX-5 has the active headlights that turn along with the steering wheel. To me, they're more of a gimmick, but always grab my attention.

As far as basic headlight function, I can actually see better out of the Ranger. I opted for the Lariat due to it coming with LED headlights. Better visibility is one of the reasons why we take the Ranger on long road trips. That, and the fact that it's far more comfortable to sit in for long periods of time than the Mazda. The Mazda is way more fun to cruise around town, though.

It seems like maybe you should be more upset at the person that researched your purchase, than Ford. ?

Did you read my line in the original post? ?

"I like my 2020 Ranger. I like it alot"

Now onto the headlights...

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) is an independent, nonprofit scientific and educational organization dedicated to reducing deaths, injuries and property damage from motor vehicle crashes through research and evaluation and through education of consumers, policymakers and safety professionals.

Here are the Ranger Lariat and CX-5 Turbo / Signature trim headlight results for current models. This is the best that both offer.

Ford Ranger

• Lariat trim

Distance at which headlights provide at least 5 lux illumination:
Low-beam headlight type	LED projector
High-beam headlight type	LED projector
Curve-adaptive?	No
High-beam assist?	Yes
Overall rating	Marginal

Low beams
On the straightaway, visibility was fair on both sides of the road. On curves, visibility was fair on both right curves and inadequate on both left curves.

The low beams never exceeded glare limits.

High beams
On the straightaway, visibility was good on both sides of the road. On curves, visibility was inadequate in all 4 tests.

High-beam assist compensates for some limitations of this vehicle's low beams on the straightaway and all 4 curves.


Mazda CX-5
Trim level

• Turbo trim
• Signature trim

Distance at which headlights provide at least 5 lux illumination:
Low-beam headlight type	LED projector
High-beam headlight type	LED projector
Curve-adaptive?	Yes
High-beam assist?	Yes
Overall rating	GOOD

Low beams
On the straightaway, visibility was good on the right side of the road and fair on the left side. On curves, visibility was good on the sharp left and both right curves and fair on the gradual left curve.

The low beams created some glare.

High beams
On the straightaway, visibility was fair on both sides of the road. On curves, visibility was good on the gradual left and gradual right curves and fair on the sharp left and sharp right curves.

High-beam assist compensates for some limitations of this vehicle's low beams on the straightaway and on both left curves.

G	Good
A	Acceptable
M	Marginal
P	Poor

 

[TJC]

You're comparing a brand new car to a 2 to 3 year old car?

Hmmmm....

Yes, I am.

So lets make it a little more fair for the Ranger. Let me compare a 2020 Ford Ranger to my 2003 Maxima.

IMO, my 20 year old Maxima has superior headlights to the 2020 Ranger - By Far! And the bulbs are the originals.

And FWIW, both the Ranger and the CX-5 are still in the latest generation. There have been no changes in the headlights in the Ranger since 2019. The CX-5 did have a front end redesign in 2021, but the previous models still had far superior headlights than the modern Ranger.

 

[Markubis]

Yes, I am.

So lets make it a little more fair for the Ranger. Let me compare a 2020 Ford Ranger to my 2003 Maxima.

IMO, my 20 year old Maxima has superior headlights to the 2020 Ranger - By Far! And the bulbs are the originals.

And FWIW, both the Ranger and the CX-5 are still in the latest generation. There have been no changes in the headlights in the Ranger since 2019. The CX-5 did have a front end redesign in 2021, but the previous models still had far superior headlights than the modern Ranger.

I will say it again, a 2 to 3 year old car/truck is not going to be as tight and smooth as when it first came off the lot.

Come back to us in 3 years and tell us how amazing the Mazda is. And picking headlights on your Maxima is a moot point...your picking and choosing features to make your point.

 

[TJC]

My 2020 truck has <18,000 miles on it. that is equal to 1.5 years of use. The AC units in my 2003 Maxima, 1993 Miata, and EVERY OTHER car or truck that I have ever owned has never given me a problem with air distribution.

I have never had problems with seeing where I want to turn in other vehicles.

I have never had another vehicle that required me to install a driveshaft to eliminate systemic vibrations in the drive train.

I have never had a another vehicle that had intermittent transmission shift points. that varied from day to day.

These are simple facts.

Further, I do not believe them to be unique to the Ford products.

I chose the CX-5 for a reason. I went looking for a vehicle that still put reliability over CAFE standards. Mazda is suffering from the same issue, and I may have made a mistake purchasing the CX-5. Cylinder Deactivation has never worked well in any previous vehicle, and Mazda has implemented that "feature" in the CX-5. I chose the turbo (~$5K more and something that I really didn't want) simply for the fact that the turbo equipped CX-5s don't have Cylinder Deactivation. I know turbos add complexity and most likely shorten engine life. And that is another can of worms. I picked my poison and now have to live with it.

I did EXACTLY the same thing when I chose the 2020 Ranger. But I had no idea that I would be changing the driveshaft on a new truck, or replacing shocks that don't damper, or that I would have to deal with the cheaply made air distribution system. I have noticed that the transmission is fine during the winter, but begins to act up come summer temps. There is a new PPE Deep pan ready to be installed in the hopes of curing yet another problem. It holds 1.75 quarts more transmission fluid and is reported to drop temps by 10F-15F. The filter just arrived as well. I will be installing them in the next couple of months. This is another first for me. I have worked on transmissions, but never so early on a new truck, and this issue has been with the truck since day 1.

The headlight issue is minor but annoying. I simply limit my night time driving to well lit areas. I have toyed with the idea of adding side marker lights that illuminate when the turn signals are on.... and I may yet follow through, but, and this is a BIG but, I shouldn't have to.

Ford knows the limitations they designed into these trucks. ALL of them. These were conscious decisions made when they designed and produced the parts.

My Maxima is 20 years old and everything still works perfectly. No burning oil, no transmission issues, no poor lighting, nothing. Not even rattles. Only routine maintenance by me. It has never been to a mechanic or dealer service center. The same with my 1993 Miata, the same with all my previous vehicles ... with the exception of a 1978 Olds Delta 88 with a 350 diesel engine that liked to blow head gaskets. But I never replaced the driveshaft, shocks, transmission pan, or AC air distribution system on it.

My 2005 Ranger doesn't have these issues either, and almost 3 years ago I went through it from top to bottom, and it is brand new again. It is a keeper. Slow, somewhat of a gas hog, but RELIABLE. I trust it far more then I trust the 2020 Ranger. I am going to install a transmission pan with a drain plug on it - at a cost of $30, on next transmission fluid change.

I like the vision of what the new Ranger stands for, but the implementation simply leaves much to be desired. My wife mentioned that maybe we should take our losses and unload it now. I hate to think of doing so, but the thought is increasingly crossing my mind. If the crazy transmission shifting issues continue, I may very well sell it. I hate money pits.

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