Maximizing Battery Life

dtech

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My NOCO 5 does have a separate repair mode function. I too as skeptical and maybe what they refer to as detecting sulfation is indeed checking resistance and just applying the right charge current. If I get a chance this weekend I'll put it back on and watch the voltage as it charges and see what happens when it gets to fully charged.
If I had a NOCO charger I'd be tempted to open it up and compare it to my Chinese brand, wouldn't be at all surprised if both are very similar, possibly identical . This is what happens when there is a rush to off shore mfg and certain countries have a well documented history of not abiding by patent laws. When I was looking at buying a modern battery charger there were dozens of options to choose from but nearly all mfg in China.

battcharge.jpg
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TJC

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I have a question that I cannot find a clear answer,

The Battminder 128CEC2, does it have a seperate desulf mode, or does it do it automatically while charging?

The NOCO Genius 10, I am looking at, appears to have a repair mode for it, but you have to select it, and from what I can tell, it bumps up the charge rate to desulf

Basically, I am looking at a charger/desulphator combo that I can plug in and let it do its thing vs the On-Board BattMinder I have, that requires to have engine running and over 13.5 volts.

The instructions for these are not clear
It goes into desulfate mode automatically and will stay in it after the battery is fully charged. It tests the battery state before doing anything, and when it begins charging it will also enter desulfate mode. IOW, if it is charging it is going to be desulfating. After completion of charging it will enter float mode and still be desulfating.

I've let it run for weeks on a fully charged battery that has a low state of health. In one case I had an Optima from my Miata that I let sit on a shelf desulfating for 2 years before placing it back in the car. That battery lasted 12 or 13 years.

It is very easy to use. Plug it in and hook it up, it senses everything. It does have manual settings as well.

You have two options with the onboard desulfator when charging. Both work equally well. You can plug the BatteryMinder charger into the center pig tail of the onboard desulafator and charge the battery through it, or you can connect directly to the battery.

In both cases, the charger/desulfator and the onboard desulfator will begin to flash their desulfator LEDs indicating desulfating is at work. The desulfators switch up high frequencies to insure all size crystals are destroyed. What is left is a uniform surface with a very very small sulfur layer.

That is my understanding.

The frequencies used, the number of frequencies used, and the order and the timing of those frequencies is protected by patents. All desulfators are not created equal. Some use only a single frequency.

Their wall wart 2amp trickle chargers work similarly. And they have a button to to enter only desulfate mode. Just be sure to pick the correct wart for battery type - AGM or flooded. I have the flooded type and have used it on an AGM battery successfully, but it is optimized for flooded batteries. (Slight difference in charge voltages)

Good luck on your search. I'd love to hear what you find. I've not looked around a great deal since moving to Batteryminder years ago. I'm sure the tech has progressed, just not how far.
 

Ohwell

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My NOCO 5 does have a separate repair mode function. I too as skeptical and maybe what they refer to as detecting sulfation is indeed checking resistance and just applying the right charge current. If I get a chance this weekend I'll put it back on and watch the voltage as it charges and see what happens when it gets to fully charged.
I have the Noco Genius 10, It has both a repair mode which you have to run manually and it also has a recovery mode that is automatic if the charger detects sulfation when you start charging a battery. There is a gentleman on YouTube who has run the Genius 5 charger and monitored what it does when charging or repairing with I believe an oscilloscope. From the graphs he shows it appears the Noco desulfates by pulsing the current going to the battery. in both recovery mode and repair mode. Repair mode uses a higher voltage with a smaller current rate pulse. The YouTube user's name is Magic Smoke, search his videos for Noco, he also does a teardown of a Genius 5 comparing it to a teardown of a Ctek. The Ctek does not seem to impress.
 

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got3fords

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should you wish to consider an alternative costing less than batteryminder, pulsetech makes an in the car desulfator for $33 . I would believe it works best to prevent sulfation on new/close to new battery and don't know how it interacts with the wretched BMS.
This looks really interesting, and a comparable product to the BatteryMindr onboard. But I thought when you said "in car" it was going to be a 12V outlet device, you know, 'in car' vs 'in engine compartment', which is probably not feasible, but, why not? Too much resistance between a 12V outlet and the battery?
 


airline tech

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My Update:

Almost (1) month since installing the Batt Minder and upping the SOC from 75% to 80%
No seeing any improvement in battery health. Only using the Batt Minder (On-Board)

I did confirm what TJC has noted, when using a Plug-In Voltmeter in the Power Points there is a (.2)
voltage difference -Power Point = (.2) volts lower than actual battery voltage
as I stated before, this is most likely the voltage drop across the power point relay.

At shutdown after 5-Minutes - Same or close to all previous readings
A little bit lower than before install
However, cooler temps and more night driving so more noted in the 14's charging voltage.
Desulphator light is blinking at anything over 13.5 volts (verifed)

So, i question the effectiveness of the desulphator 13.5 vs 14.5 volts, which one of the (2) is doing more for the battery?

Shutdown.jpg


Since my main goal is to get better battery health, I need to include at test after 10 to 12 hrs rest
Note: 12.1 Volts, this matches what I have always seen on the Power Point meter 11.9 Volts, this clearly shows the voltage drop. In all of my Wake-Up voltage tests.

So, I need to update my BMS Charging System Thread, to note this small difference.

So, for mine - I have always have roughly .75-volt loss during sleep modes, my wake-up voltages have always been around 11.9 volts (12.1 Actual) on my meter. even after letting it sit for 3 or more days without starting it.

After 12 Hrs. Rest - (AKA - Wake-Up) Voltage

12 hour rest .jpg


My changes today:

Bumped SOC from 80% to 85% and will monitor next month for any progression.

I also ordered the Noco Genius 10 - Cyber Monday
Being that I should have a battery charger in my massive tool assortment anyway.
I thought I would give it a try.
My thought was to hook up with it and disulfate while at rest vs only while being driven to speed up the process.

I do question at what IR, will the NOCO register it needs Desulphated, what is its programmed minimum IR it needs to see before it turns the desulphating mode off?

For a related matter, I question the true readings of the Topdon, how accurate is it? I know the voltage reading itself is accurate but how accurate is the Battery Test Results?
Being that results will widely vary depending on where you hook up the test leads.
The results themselves stay pretty much the same as long as I hook up to the same exact location every time.
Note: Resistance variance from the lead hook up points, will vary your results.

If needed might step up to the more expensive Batt Minder, IDK this is not a dire need for me, it is more of a can I make it better quest and what will it take in baby steps to reach that goal.
 

Friday yet?

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If I had a NOCO charger I'd be tempted to open it up and compare it to my Chinese brand, wouldn't be at all surprised if both are very similar, possibly identical . This is what happens when there is a rush to off shore mfg and certain countries have a well documented history of not abiding by patent laws. When I was looking at buying a modern battery charger there were dozens of options to choose from but nearly all mfg in China.

battcharge.jpg
China is the pits. Bastards steal every idea they can get their hands on. It's like it's ingrained in them.

If I had a magic wand, no US company would manufacture or invest in anything in China. Prices be damned. Just slam the door on the bastards.
 

dtech

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China is the pits. Bastards steal every idea they can get their hands on. It's like it's ingrained in them.

If I had a magic wand, no US company would manufacture or invest in anything in China. Prices be damned. Just slam the door on the bastards.
that they do and US companies were fully aware of the risk but there were profits to be made. Having worked in tech industries one of the early court cases involved Huawei copying Cisco routers, the evidence clearly showed design was copied but also the documentation was copied verbatim including some grammatical errorrs.
Read something that said the American colonists did the same with machinery made by the Brits.
 
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TJC

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My Update:

Almost (1) month since installing the Batt Minder and upping the SOC from 75% to 80%
No seeing any improvement in battery health. Only using the Batt Minder (On-Board)

I did confirm what TJC has noted, when using a Plug-In Voltmeter in the Power Points there is a (.2)
voltage difference -Power Point = (.2) volts lower than actual battery voltage
as I stated before, this is most likely the voltage drop across the power point relay.

At shutdown after 5-Minutes - Same or close to all previous readings
A little bit lower than before install
However, cooler temps and more night driving so more noted in the 14's charging voltage.
Desulphator light is blinking at anything over 13.5 volts (verifed)

So, i question the effectiveness of the desulphator 13.5 vs 14.5 volts, which one of the (2) is doing more for the battery?

Shutdown.jpg


Since my main goal is to get better battery health, I need to include at test after 10 to 12 hrs rest
Note: 12.1 Volts, this matches what I have always seen on the Power Point meter 11.9 Volts, this clearly shows the voltage drop. In all of my Wake-Up voltage tests.

So, I need to update my BMS Charging System Thread, to note this small difference.

So, for mine - I have always have roughly .75-volt loss during sleep modes, my wake-up voltages have always been around 11.9 volts (12.1 Actual) on my meter. even after letting it sit for 3 or more days without starting it.

After 12 Hrs. Rest - (AKA - Wake-Up) Voltage

12 hour rest .jpg


My changes today:

Bumped SOC from 80% to 85% and will monitor next month for any progression.

I also ordered the Noco Genius 10 - Cyber Monday
Being that I should have a battery charger in my massive tool assortment anyway.
I thought I would give it a try.
My thought was to hook up with it and disulfate while at rest vs only while being driven to speed up the process.

I do question at what IR, will the NOCO register it needs Desulphated, what is its programmed minimum IR it needs to see before it turns the desulphating mode off?

For a related matter, I question the true readings of the Topdon, how accurate is it? I know the voltage reading itself is accurate but how accurate is the Battery Test Results?
Being that results will widely vary depending on where you hook up the test leads.
The results themselves stay pretty much the same as long as I hook up to the same exact location every time.
Note: Resistance variance from the lead hook up points, will vary your results.

If needed might step up to the more expensive Batt Minder, IDK this is not a dire need for me, it is more of a can I make it better quest and what will it take in baby steps to reach that goal.
Bump your SOC to 95% or even 100%. I've been at 95% for a while and I am going to 100% very soon. As soon as my company leaves this Sunday. I see the same high charge voltages in colder weather in both the 2005 Ranger as in the 2020 Ranger. I went out and started the 2005 Ranger a few days ago after it sat for 3 weeks. The battery voltage was at 12.7v!

I am not yet seeing that kind of staying power with the 2020 Ranger. But the charging cycles are very similar with ASS/ BMS are turned off in Forscan.

I also leave the battery on a charger as much as possible when I first install the Desulator or a new battery. My Chargers go to trickle or float mode and the desulfator runs the entire time, speeding up the process. Desulfation takes time. be patient. Once you get it maximized you'll see the results.
 

pboggini

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My Update:

Almost (1) month since installing the Batt Minder and upping the SOC from 75% to 80%
No seeing any improvement in battery health. Only using the Batt Minder (On-Board)

I did confirm what TJC has noted, when using a Plug-In Voltmeter in the Power Points there is a (.2)
voltage difference -Power Point = (.2) volts lower than actual battery voltage
as I stated before, this is most likely the voltage drop across the power point relay.

At shutdown after 5-Minutes - Same or close to all previous readings
A little bit lower than before install
However, cooler temps and more night driving so more noted in the 14's charging voltage.
Desulphator light is blinking at anything over 13.5 volts (verifed)

So, i question the effectiveness of the desulphator 13.5 vs 14.5 volts, which one of the (2) is doing more for the battery?

Shutdown.jpg


Since my main goal is to get better battery health, I need to include at test after 10 to 12 hrs rest
Note: 12.1 Volts, this matches what I have always seen on the Power Point meter 11.9 Volts, this clearly shows the voltage drop. In all of my Wake-Up voltage tests.

So, I need to update my BMS Charging System Thread, to note this small difference.

So, for mine - I have always have roughly .75-volt loss during sleep modes, my wake-up voltages have always been around 11.9 volts (12.1 Actual) on my meter. even after letting it sit for 3 or more days without starting it.

After 12 Hrs. Rest - (AKA - Wake-Up) Voltage

12 hour rest .jpg


My changes today:

Bumped SOC from 80% to 85% and will monitor next month for any progression.

I also ordered the Noco Genius 10 - Cyber Monday
Being that I should have a battery charger in my massive tool assortment anyway.
I thought I would give it a try.
My thought was to hook up with it and disulfate while at rest vs only while being driven to speed up the process.

I do question at what IR, will the NOCO register it needs Desulphated, what is its programmed minimum IR it needs to see before it turns the desulphating mode off?

For a related matter, I question the true readings of the Topdon, how accurate is it? I know the voltage reading itself is accurate but how accurate is the Battery Test Results?
Being that results will widely vary depending on where you hook up the test leads.
The results themselves stay pretty much the same as long as I hook up to the same exact location every time.
Note: Resistance variance from the lead hook up points, will vary your results.

If needed might step up to the more expensive Batt Minder, IDK this is not a dire need for me, it is more of a can I make it better quest and what will it take in baby steps to reach that goal.

Mine has been on 10 days now. Not seeing the CCA go up much (seems more impacted by temps) nor resistance go down (same impact with temp I think) but I am seeing lower morning voltages (around 14.5 instead of 14.9) on the USB outlet/voltage display and I've finally seen it dip to 13.9 during the day (temps in the 60's) when commuting. That and I am seeing the voltage stay higher for longer when I stop the truck and sit and listen to the radio even with my two phones still plugged in.

My SOC has been 95% for 6 months or so now. I noticed that even with 90%, the health of the battery was suffering with CCA going down and charge voltages going up even as the weather was warmer in the summer. At 95%, it's less so. I tend to agree with @TJC I think it's worth bumping it to 100% though I was thinking of bumping it to 97 or 98%. The only reason I've not yet done it yet is that it does seem like my battery minder is making some incremental progress. If it can continue, I might just leave it at 95%.
 

Ohwell

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Bump your SOC to 95% or even 100%. I've been at 95% for a while and I am going to 100% very soon. As soon as my company leaves this Sunday. I see the same high charge voltages in colder weather in both the 2005 Ranger as in the 2020 Ranger. I went out and started the 2005 Ranger a few days ago after it sat for 3 weeks. The battery voltage was at 12.7v!

I am not yet seeing that kind of staying power with the 2020 Ranger. But the charging cycles are very similar with ASS/ BMS are turned off in Forscan.

I also leave the battery on a charger as much as possible when I first install the Desulator or a new battery. My Chargers go to trickle or float mode and the desulfator runs the entire time, speeding up the process. Desulfation takes time. be patient. Once you get it maximized you'll see the results.
I would guess your older Ranger has a lower parasitic draw while not in use than your newer Ranger does.
 

airline tech

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Well sometimes you have to say -Huh.

After putting my battery on the Noco-10 twice and I was not seeing any improvement in my test readings I wondered if my Topdon was not accurate.

I invested a small sum of money in the cheaper Viking tester, just as a comparison test tool.

I am thinking that I may send my Topdon in for repair or calibration, on the off chance it is indeed off. I have a feeling it is accurate, and my results are what they are. with it.

But here are my test results from today, taken at the same test points minutes apart.

HUGE difference in the results. :facepalm:

Which one is the most accurate?
I know these things are not the most reliable for accuracy.

I guess the main thing that had me stumped was how TJC was able to get CCA's so high, now I see the same with my Viking. Although I would like the Viking's results to be accurate, I have a hunch the Topdon is the winner here. IDK, I guess at least use both of these results as the baseline. :LOL:

Topdon - Test.jpg




Viking - Test.jpg
 
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TJC

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Airline Tech,

I just ordered a BT200 on Amazon Prime and it will be here Sunday. Let's see if I can validate your results.

I have several autos and I will test them all with both testers, posting the results here.

- T
 
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TJC

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IIRC, my 2020 Ranger battery started out under 500 CCA and and ~5mO internal resistance. My viking tester is reading very close to what you are seeing with my 2020 Ranger battery.
 

dtech

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The battery university site offers some insights into how cca are measured and renders opinion on the accuracy of handheld testers that do a point in time test which is a calculation highly dependent on the accuracy of the internal resistance measurement. Europe uses a different test standard called EN for European norm and this standard produces a lower cca rating than those rated by the SAE method. Key takeaway from the article that even using the more extensive testing methods cca is an estimate. And like a number of ratings for products like tires the battery mfg provide their own rating.
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