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Interstate and Low Load Vibration: Part 2

Quatakai

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Hi everyone,

(2019 FX4 Lariat, 2,500 miles, optional Hankook Dynapro AT-M Tires)

My original post on these forums for my issues can be found here (click here)

Breakdown of my previous post:
After driving this Ranger for about 2-3 weeks, I noticed that there was a vibration on the interstate (and also street speeds, but less noticeable), it feels like a less intense rumble strip, and almost feels exactly like unbalanced wheels or flat spotted tires, and tends to get worse while going up an incline. At first I thought it was just the crappy roads here in NH, but it was happening on freshly paved, flat and straight parts of the interstate, as well.

I contacted my dealership, and their tech went out for a test drive with me. As soon as we got on the interstate he said "Oh yeah I can feel that, probably needs a balance". So we brought it back to the dealership, and they road force balanced my wheels/tires. They said it seemed "better" but not fixed, and even said that if I still felt it, they could potentially swap parts out with other Rangers on the lot (not exactly what I would call a confident solution). I took it out and same day immediately noticed that it was still the same. I contacted them the next day and they had me bring it in the following morning. They said they drove it again and the tech confirmed that the vibration was still there, and they test drove 3 other Rangers on their lot and they experienced the same vibration.

They opened up a case with their Ford hotline for all 4 trucks, including mine, and sent me on my way.

Part 2:
I heard back from them today and they said Ford said that the vibration is a characteristic of the truck (???), and that was that. I asked about escalating the issue, and they gave me a number to call, but I have not called it yet because I want to get my thoughts straight on this.

I have a couple of questions.

  1. How should I proceed with this phone call to escalate the issue? Anything I should ask specifically?
  2. How can a tech drive it and verbally announce there's a problem as soon as we get on the interstate, and then all the sudden now it's "a driving characteristic of the truck"?
  3. Is anyone else experiencing a vibration on the interstate at low RPM's (around 2000rpm)? It feels like a powertrain issue to me, but I'm not an experienced tech, I just tinkerer.
  4. I have the extended warranty on this and I only have 2500 miles on the truck, anything I should ask the dealer to look at or try while it's still extremely new and under warranty?
Thanks,
-Q



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P. A. Schilke

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Hi everyone,

(2019 FX4 Lariat, 2,500 miles, optional Hankook Dynapro AT-M Tires)

My original post on these forums for my issues can be found here (click here)

Breakdown of my previous post:
After driving this Ranger for about 2-3 weeks, I noticed that there was a vibration on the interstate (and also street speeds, but less noticeable), it feels like a less intense rumble strip, and almost feels exactly like unbalanced wheels or flat spotted tires, and tends to get worse while going up an incline. At first I thought it was just the crappy roads here in NH, but it was happening on freshly paved, flat and straight parts of the interstate, as well.

I contacted my dealership, and their tech went out for a test drive with me. As soon as we got on the interstate he said "Oh yeah I can feel that, probably needs a balance". So we brought it back to the dealership, and they road force balanced my wheels/tires. They said it seemed "better" but not fixed, and even said that if I still felt it, they could potentially swap parts out with other Rangers on the lot (not exactly what I would call a confident solution). I took it out and same day immediately noticed that it was still the same. I contacted them the next day and they had me bring it in the following morning. They said they drove it again and the tech confirmed that the vibration was still there, and they test drove 3 other Rangers on their lot and they experienced the same vibration.

They opened up a case with their Ford hotline for all 4 trucks, including mine, and sent me on my way.

Part 2:
I heard back from them today and they said Ford said that the vibration is a characteristic of the truck (???), and that was that. I asked about escalating the issue, and they gave me a number to call, but I have not called it yet because I want to get my thoughts straight on this.

I have a couple of questions.

  1. How should I proceed with this phone call to escalate the issue? Anything I should ask specifically?
  2. How can a tech drive it and verbally announce there's a problem as soon as we get on the interstate, and then all the sudden now it's "a driving characteristic of the truck"?
  3. Is anyone else experiencing a vibration on the interstate at low RPM's (around 2000rpm)? It feels like a powertrain issue to me, but I'm not an experienced tech, I just tinkerer.
  4. I have the extended warranty on this and I only have 2500 miles on the truck, anything I should ask the dealer to look at or try while it's still extremely new and under warranty?
Thanks,
-Q
Hi Q,

It is probably driveshaft related. Call and elevate this concern at Ford. In the meantime, find another dealer... But when you sense the vibration, shift to another lower gear. Still there...then driveline...Otherwise, it is engine/ transmission related.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired,
 
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Quatakai

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Phil,

This is the response I got from the same dealer after asking them to do this. I guess I'll find another dealer since these guys clearly don't want to help.

" Matt,
Good afternoon. Thank you for your email. I just finished speaking with the shop foreman, the tech that worked on your truck and the service manager. We submitted to the Ford Technical assistance Hotline with your concern. Their response was to compare your vehicle against other vehicles we have here on the lot to see if this is a characteristic of the vehicle. We've driven 5 different rangers varying in mileage from brand new to having almost 10,000 miles on them. It is our belief this concern is a characteristic of the Ranger as all of them exhibited this characteristic.
We did not use a noise, vibration and harshness analyzer on your truck as every truck we drove had this characteristic.

If there is anything else I can help you with please let me know."
 

P. A. Schilke

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Phil,

This is the response I got from the same dealer after asking them to do this. I guess I'll find another dealer since these guys clearly don't want to help.

" Matt,
Good afternoon. Thank you for your email. I just finished speaking with the shop foreman, the tech that worked on your truck and the service manager. We submitted to the Ford Technical assistance Hotline with your concern. Their response was to compare your vehicle against other vehicles we have here on the lot to see if this is a characteristic of the vehicle. We've driven 5 different rangers varying in mileage from brand new to having almost 10,000 miles on them. It is our belief this concern is a characteristic of the Ranger as all of them exhibited this characteristic.
We did not use a noise, vibration and harshness analyzer on your truck as every truck we drove had this characteristic.

If there is anything else I can help you with please let me know."
Hi Matt,

Raise this concern with Ford Customer Care...Ask for an elevation as the dealer is stalling you... Also...find another dealer. They should at the least use their "NVH analyzer", what ever this crude device is....

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 
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Quatakai

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Well I looked it up and it looks like there are PICO NVH devices that are specifically made for diagnosing "Noise, Vibrations and Harshness" in vehicles. So, opposite from a crude device, but the wording could have been better on their part.

Still working on this, and potentially having a "Field Tech Specialist" come into to diagnose this issue, but first I have an appointment with another dealership close by to use their NVH Analyzer (whichever device it may be). I'm going to request to ride along so I can see how this thing works, and also see if they actually find something or not while the vibrations are happening live. I would love to know if I'm actually crazy or not :)
 

2.7EcoBoost

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Well I looked it up and it looks like there are PICO NVH devices that are specifically made for diagnosing "Noise, Vibrations and Harshness" in vehicles. So, opposite from a crude device, but the wording could have been better on their part.

Still working on this, and potentially having a "Field Tech Specialist" come into to diagnose this issue, but first I have an appointment with another dealership close by to use their NVH Analyzer (whichever device it may be). I'm going to request to ride along so I can see how this thing works, and also see if they actually find something or not while the vibrations are happening live. I would love to know if I'm actually crazy or not :)
I too have a vibration. Mine is pretty faint, usually under light load between 50-60 mph (where I spend 95% of my time, so very annoying) dealer said "yep, we definitely feel it". They balanced the tires and said problem solved. Well, it didn't change one bit. If I were betting, mine is likely drive shaft related or in the rear diff. I noticed it at about 1,000 miles and now at 10,000 it's no worse or no better. As for the "Field Tech Specialist", don't get to excited. I worked at 2 Ford dealerships almost 20 years ago and these guys were clowns. Well, the 2 I dealt with were. They were just over paid "That's the normal characteristic of the truck" guys. We stopped letting the one "assist" us at the one dealership.
 

P. A. Schilke

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I too have a vibration. Mine is pretty faint, usually under light load between 50-60 mph (where I spend 95% of my time, so very annoying) dealer said "yep, we definitely feel it". They balanced the tires and said problem solved. Well, it didn't change one bit. If I were betting, mine is likely drive shaft related or in the rear diff. I noticed it at about 1,000 miles and now at 10,000 it's no worse or no better. As for the "Field Tech Specialist", don't get to excited. I worked at 2 Ford dealerships almost 20 years ago and these guys were clowns. Well, the 2 I dealt with were. They were just over paid "That's the normal characteristic of the truck" guys. We stopped letting the one "assist" us at the one dealership.
Hi 2.7,

I have described a way to see if you can tune this out if it is driveshaft related by using two hose clamps...It is a PITA, but does work.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 

THLONE

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I would ask to test drive all of the other vehicles myself.
 

2.7EcoBoost

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Hi 2.7,

I have described a way to see if you can tune this out if it is driveshaft related by using two hose clamps...It is a PITA, but does work.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
Yeah, when the weather breaks, I'll likely try it to see if I can pin point it. If I can't, I'm going to try a competent dealer. Problem is, they are over an hour away......:frown:
 

WhiteBeastRangerNick

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I have this same issue and a manager at the dealer has the issue on his truck. I’m guessing Ford can’t afford the recall on all trucks so they’re just keeping quiet? Have you found a fix?
 

SOHK_Alumni

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Easy thing to try is to shim the center carrier bearing using washers, maybe 10 mins of work with some 3/8" or 10mm washers and a 15mm wrench. Fair chance it'll change and hopefully improve the vibration.

Else, for some reason, Ford spec's the driveshaft to be 15 degrees out of phase, often a recipe for issues. I've had success with driveline vibrations by getting mine re-worked to align the 2 rear u-joints and re-balanced.
 

kieefer

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Have you done the TSB 20-2339 ?
I had a vib around 1500rpm 35-40mph and 2k 75-80 mph on the interstate. This TSB pretty much eliminated it.
 

2.7EcoBoost

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I have this same issue and a manager at the dealer has the issue on his truck. I’m guessing Ford can’t afford the recall on all trucks so they’re just keeping quiet? Have you found a fix?
I found that while laying under my truck and grabbing the rear driveshaft, I can move it up and down and there is a clunk that can be heard and felt coming from the slip yoke. I have finally made an appointment and explained in great detail that my vibration is load (or in my case no/light load) related. I also described what I found. The dealer said they have seen this on other Rangers and they have contacted Ford and at this point it is considered a normal charachteristic of the truck. I am like what?? So it's designed to have play in the slip yoke that creates a noticeable vibration when you're not under load??? I'm gonna end up tapping the yoke and installing a grease fitting. It should dampen some of it. Mine is very minor, but I notice it. I can make it do it under certain conditions.

Have you done the TSB 20-2339 ?
I had a vib around 1500rpm 35-40mph and 2k 75-80 mph on the interstate. This TSB pretty much eliminated it.
I'm not sure how the TSB for a surge or rough running when cold helped with a vibration? I have had the surge when cold since new. 2 dealers told me it's just the "normal charachteristic of the 10 speed, they all do it". This TSB says otherwise. Man.....I am on my 3rd dealer and still not getting much help. Gonna see if they will do this TSB...🤞🤞🙏🙏
 

RANGER PRIDE

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" I'm not sure how the TSB for a surge or rough running when cold helped with a vibration "


there is enough confusion and misunderstanding and self diagnosis of these multiple problems that many of them are being intertwined into each other.
I had a surge, I also had what i perceived to be a minimal vibration.

i had the TSB for both carried out. the surge went away, shifts are way smoother and ive never felt my minimal vibration since. my pinion angles were apparently in spec. Im still getting a new TCM though because the dealer noticed mine wasnt working the way it should (i suspect thats why I currently have 3-4 clunk)
so is there a connection? maybe on some vehicles, maybe not.

with all the sorcery and back yard mechanics being thrown into the mix, it's no wonder theres multiple threads on multiple problems and from reading one to the next you have no idea if you've already read that thread or not.
 

2.7EcoBoost

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" I'm not sure how the TSB for a surge or rough running when cold helped with a vibration "


there is enough confusion and misunderstanding and self diagnosis of these multiple problems that many of them are being intertwined into each other.
I had a surge, I also had what i perceived to be a minimal vibration.

i had the TSB for both carried out. the surge went away, shifts are way smoother and ive never felt my minimal vibration since. my pinion angles were apparently in spec. Im still getting a new TCM though because the dealer noticed mine wasnt working the way it should (i suspect thats why I currently have 3-4 clunk)
so is there a connection? maybe on some vehicles, maybe not.

with all the sorcery and back yard mechanics being thrown into the mix, it's no wonder theres multiple threads on multiple problems and from reading one to the next you have no idea if you've already read that thread or not.

I don't think back yard mechanics are the problem. I think internet forum mechanics are getting confused with what is a vibration and what is a surge. Two very different things. I think "Service Managers" are also getting confused with what is normal and what is easier to say is normal. Ford didn't design a truck to have a vibration (normal) coming from the driveshaft or slip yoke. If Dana can't make a consistent driveshaft or slip yoke then Ford should go after them after they fix customers trucks. This is a $40k truck. That is 38% the cost of my house. Probably close to 50% or more than some buyers house cost.
 

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