Gasoline in Ontario (or Canada)

[SymChris]

Soccer Dad Post incoming...

Aug. 13th - 92.9 in Woodbridge. By the time I drove a few more km’s south hit 97.9, Another few km’s (Mississauga where I live) and it’s 100.9. Started the day at $102.9.

Two questions:

1) The above is correct, don’t answer.

2) Costco gas - where does that come from? Being a lifelong Shell customer, I’m curious if anyone knows where the Costco gas comes from? They give a pretty good price at the start of the day....

Sponsored

 

[BannonJr]

They don't have a single supplier.
They source from whoever can deliver at "X" price on "X" date.

 

[SymChris]

Thanks guys, My wife uses Costco mostly for our ‘17 Escape and we haven’t had any issues (/knocks wood).

Many many years ago I ran some Canadian Tire gas in my ‘91 Ranger and it ran like crap so I haven’t gone back to them since.

As mentioned, I’m primarily Shell and have only recently started pumping their 91 v-power and really noticed the change in running. But with the premium price on that, have been considering also using Costco to save some pennies...

 

[FULLSCALE]

Thanks guys, My wife uses Costco mostly for our ‘17 Escape and we haven’t had any issues (/knocks wood).

Many many years ago I ran some Canadian Tire gas in my ‘91 Ranger and it ran like crap so I haven’t gone back to them since.

As mentioned, I’m primarily Shell and have only recently started pumping their 91 v-power and really noticed the change in running. But with the premium price on that, have been considering also using Costco to save some pennies...

I only use Canadian Tire or Shell. The closest Costco to me is an hour and I’ve only filled up there once. It’s always so busy that I’d rather pay a few bucks more to save the wait!

 

[CB750F]

Thanks guys, My wife uses Costco mostly for our ‘17 Escape and we haven’t had any issues (/knocks wood).

Many many years ago I ran some Canadian Tire gas in my ‘91 Ranger and it ran like crap so I haven’t gone back to them since.

As mentioned, I’m primarily Shell and have only recently started pumping their 91 v-power and really noticed the change in running. But with the premium price on that, have been considering also using Costco to save some pennies...

Shell V-Power has no ethanol, so, some will say "better" gas.

 

[SymChris]

Shell V-Power has no ethanol, so, some will say "better" gas.

I've actually been mostly using the V-Power since last fall when I started to use it (was pretty well always an 87 consumer up until then). I do the occasional 89 or 87 tank now in the freezing temps as I understand that having some ethanol content actually helps as a "fuel line de-icer" in the winter months since it contains the ethanol.

 

[Swingpure]

My previous vehicle (Acura MDX) called for Premium fuel to be used. My fill ups were always expensive. One of the reasons why I liked getting the Ranger, was it was designed to take regular gas with some ethanol in it.

My boat motor, chain saws and other small equipment, I still use premium gas, as they do work better with premium gas.

I also primarily use Shell gas, but occasionally use Esso or Canadian Tire gas with no problems. Cosco’s are too far away for me.

 

[FloggingBishop]

Ok so here’s some facts. Disclaimer I work at a bulk terminal (where all the gas stations get their gas from) for a large global oil company. We blend and ship gas for PetroCan, UltraMar, Esso, Shell and generic no branded stations or independent companies.

costco: most likely it’s coming from Esso/IOL with 9.98-10.2% ethanol and a small amount of DCA (deposit control additive) for regular. Costco will also add their own branded additives at the site during a bulk receipt. Mid grade will have some ethanol as it is blended between premium and regular at the dispenser. Premium may or may not have ethanol based on source.Most likely it will not.

Esso/Shell/PetroCan : PCan and Esso use basically the same DCA in their fuels (KeroPur 205-25 or -30). The difference is the treatment rate. From my experience PCan adds more additive (not the same as ethanol) then Esso which helps keep your engine running clean, and helps control carbon deposits. Esso and PCan super premium eg 93 octane will most likely have ethanol as it is probably 91 boosted to 93 with ethanol or some other recipe along those lines. If a station has 93 or higher premium the usual 91 will also have ethanol as it’s probably the 93+ blended up to 93 then blended down with regular at the station to make 91. Again this is a probably. I know of some large places that carry separate 91 and 93 tanks.

Canadian tire/en route: Generally is an esso account, however comma can sometimes be Shell/Shell generic blend. Has some of the lowest treatment rates for DCA’s. Benefit is they have high throughput so the tanks don’t have stagnated fuel. Personally I avoid CT or En Route if I can.

Shell: highest treatment rates of their additive, which is different then Esso/PCan or generics. Regular has up to 10.2% ethanol (Government of Canada says 9.3-10.2 is considered E10).V Power has even higher treatment of DCA and No Ethanol. Gas buddy and from personal experience She’ll Silver has the best L/100km performance in most modern engines. Shell unbranded or generic uses the same DCA as PCan and Esso at a lower treatment rate then branded Shell. Unbranded shell can be found at small mom and pops and sometimes at marinas etc.

Circle K/Couchtard : Branded Shell product unless it’s a legacy Mac’s with Esso branded. Are a very small handful that are generic. No issues getting fuel at Circle K other then visiting a circle k.

Flying J: Shell Branded for all products.

My advice, and again I work for one of these companies so take this as you wish, Shell and PetroCanada have a better product, followed by Esso. Avoidcorporate stations like Canadian Tire and Costco if you have the choice. En Route in Ontario is Canadian Tire generally moving a generic Esso product and rarely an unbranded Shell.

Shell Diesel during mid March to Mid October will be B5 not B0 and some PetroCan may also have B5. So it’s good for the penguins.

VAPOUR PRESSURE!!! : Yes Summer and Winter gas are different!!! Starting in March stations blend down the products with lower kPa vapour pressure GASOLINES. A higher vapour pressure in warm weather is bad, so you will see differences in winter and summer mileage. Also air density factors in.Generally you will have better mileage in cold weather but we all warm up are cars and idle and run heaters etc... so yeah. Not driving in snow in lower gears doesn’t help the mileage either.


sorry for the mini novel. There’s sort of more to it then just what I said but that’s the basics. I can answer some questions that aren’t too invasive into these companies if anyone wants to know.
FYI I have worked in this industry for two major companies for 17yrs

edit: to be clear, no gas station is necessarily “bad”, just some brands have better additive blending. Vapour pressure is lowered to reduce vapour locking in warmer weather (very very basic explanation). Premium will have an even lower VP in summer so that’s a good thing there.
Ethanol - ethanol naturally has small amounts of water (up to 3% but usually under 1%) in it naturally. It also has methanol which is basically what gas line anti freeze is (Methyl Hydrate or sometime methyl ethyl hydrate). Ethanol and water will mix, to a point.... Usually ethanol has a density of 793 kg/kl and water is 1000, or 1 litre of water will weigh around 1KG and 1 L of ethanol will weigh .793 kg. Gasoline is usually .7000 - .7450 L/KG and premium can go up to around .760 L/KG. Alternately diesel (Ultra Low Sulphur) is in the .8000 and up range. What does this mean? Basically don’t rely on ethanol to act as gas line anti freeze. If you leave a tank of gas with room for condensation to form things can begin to stratify on a small scale, and with ethanol being heavier then gasoline, water and ethanol will eventually settle to the bottom of a tank. It is blended and mixed during injection at the distribution points but everything being unequal science does take over. Ethanol has other funky properties too. Personally I am not afraid of it in my Ranger, I just choose to run mid grades for the added DCA’s. The little octane boost (which really only helps with knock - again basic basic reasoning) is not going to help much, but less ethanol and more additives = more good.

 

[SymChris]

Great write-up and follows the experiences I’ve had with all of them over the years.

I’m happy with Shell silver and will soon be hitting up the v-power when we can start really driving again.

I would like to run a few tanks of Petro-Can/Sunoco Ultra 94, but the 2 closest ones (and not as close as other stations) don’t even have it. Only previous Sunoco’s seem to have it in my area.

 

[FloggingBishop]

Great write-up and follows the experiences I’ve had with all of them over the years.

I’m happy with Shell silver and will soon be hitting up the v-power when we can start really driving again.

I would like to run a few tanks of Petro-Can/Sunoco Ultra 94, but the 2 closest ones (and not as close as other stations) don’t even have it. Only previous Sunoco’s seem to have it in my area.

yes sorry when I said 93 I meant 94. I have run the PCan 94 and it’s good, I still think mid grades are the best chooch for you Canadian pesos. Mobil is also Esso if it wasn’t obvious. No Sunoco around me.
UltraMar is ok too, but it’s a Valero brand so they probably only meet basic Canadian regs.

v-Power I have noticed gave me a worse L/100km then Silver and PCan 91 is about the same. The 94 was a smidge worse but maybe by a few decimal points. E10 was good too but mid grades seem to be the best of all worlds in these 4 bangers.

also who actually refined the base product is irrelevant, it has to meet such tight regulations that it’s all the same no matter the name. It’s the additives that count.

Also little tid bit, many Esso/Mobil are owned by Parkland, the biggest independent oil company. They also own a bunch of other company branded franchises. I know of a few Parkland that take Shell products, some take Ultramar. Pioneer is generally a Valero product so ultramar usually but not 100% of the time.

if you have a choice go Shell, then PetroCan. For me I live 10 minutes from a Shell but 1 minute from 2 Petro and 1 Ultramar and unless I am going towards the Shell I will just get Petro-Canada.

also only run no ethanol premium in a two stroke of able. If you are going to use the whole tank of gas in one shot it won’t matter but if you mix the gas with2 stroke oil and let it sit, especially over winter eventually the engine will make the bad smoke due to binding / separating of all the mixed components. You want the most additives. Motorcycles are one of the few modern vehicles where you will really notice a difference between the grades.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

yes sorry when I said 93 I meant 94. I have run the PCan 94 and it’s good, I still think mid grades are the best chooch for you Canadian pesos. Mobil is also Esso if it wasn’t obvious. No Sunoco around me.
UltraMar is ok too, but it’s a Valero brand so they probably only meet basic Canadian regs.

v-Power I have noticed gave me a worse L/100km then Silver and PCan 91 is about the same. The 94 was a smidge worse but maybe by a few decimal points. E10 was good too but mid grades seem to be the best of all worlds in these 4 bangers.

also who actually refined the base product is irrelevant, it has to meet such tight regulations that it’s all the same no matter the name. It’s the additives that count.

My write up was really pretty basic. The Ranger can take E85, and if Ford says so I would think it’s fine. Imagine they say E85 is ok and it wasn’t? I don’t think even Mackewens has the E85 anymore in Ontario. Also E85 is actually 15% ethanol. It’s funny how 10% is E10 but 15% is E85... also Alberta has E6. Some places closer to Sarnia and northern Ontario would have only started getting Shell E10 since mid 2020. Before that it would have been “Regular”.

Also little tid bit, many Esso/Mobil are owned by Parkland, the biggest independent oil company. They also own a bunch of other company branded franchises. I know of a few Parkland that take Shell products, some take Ultramar. Pioneer is generally a Valero product so ultramar usually but not 100% of the time.

if you have a choice go Shell, then PetroCan. For me I live 10 minutes from a Shell but 1 minute from 2 Petro and 1 Ultramar and unless I am going towards the Shell I will just get Petro-Canada.

also only run no ethanol premium in a two stroke of able. If you are going to use the whole tank of gas in one shot it won’t matter but if you mix the gas with2 stroke oil and let it sit, especially over winter eventually the engine will make the bad smoke due to binding / separating of all the mixed components. You want the most additives. Motorcycles are one of the few modern vehicles where you will really notice a difference between the grades.

HI Tyler,

Okay...interesting info from someone on the inside. I am a bit confused on E85. I launched the largest alternative fuel fleet in the history of the USA when we made all 3.0L Rangers E85 compatible. E85 is 85% ethanol 15% Gasoline here in the USA. Very surprised it is not the same in Canada.

I am confused on this ethanol blending to which you refer.

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[FloggingBishop]

HI Tyler,

Okay...interesting info from someone on the inside. I am a bit confused on E85. I launched the largest alternative fuel fleet in the history of the USA when we made all 3.0L Rangers E85 compatible. E85 is 85% ethanol 15% Gasoline here in the USA. Very surprised it is not the same in Canada.

I am confused on this ethanol blending to which you refer.

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Lol my bad, you are correct, I had my head in B5/B20 mode, where B20 is blended down from B100, and then makes B5 (5% bio but actually is 22% B20) I basically was doing unnecessary maths, I even referenced in my post about when I rented a car that was E85, I think at least I Referenced it, and the 85 ethanol gave surprising power loses going uphills. I have had a long day of being stuck indoors.

so ethanol blending.... when injecting ethanol into a load of Regular gasoline at a load rack (into tanker truck)there are a few ways to do it (same with B5 or premixed mid grades or really many other rack delivered products) it can be dumped in at the start then gasoline dropped on top (10% ethanol then 90% RBOB or whatever the blend) it can also be side streamed. When ethanol contacts gasoline for blending the ethanol grows/expands, so it doesn’t mix well when just dumping it in first. Load racks will generally have a static mixer (picture a pipe with fins inside that are angled or create a vortex) the ethanol is injectedjust upstream of this point then the rbob and ethanol statically mix, meaning there isn’t a blade or turbine to mix it. It then exits the static mixer and will usually hit a vortex breaker down stream of the static mixer to “straighten” the flow so it can be accurately metered. It can also be direct injected but it’s uncommon from my knowledge as the volumes and such would be hard on most equipment in that setup and wouldn’t be able to allow the blending and expanding/growth pre main product meter. I’m sure it’s done somewhere.

anyways, sorry for the confusion on E85. It’s not common up here, generally you will see E10 or E6 in the west. Some places depending on source are still Regular (E0). I actually think I only saw E85 that one time. I think it can be ordered from private delivery companies. Race fuels are generally custom orders and not usually available to the public. VP racing being one.

hit me up if I have confused you more

I editors out my mistake on E85

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Lol my bad, you are correct, I had my head in B5/B20 mode, where B20 is blended down from B100, and then makes B5 (5% bio but actually is 22% B20) I basically was doing unnecessary maths, I even referenced in my post about when I rented a car that was E85, I think at least I Referenced it, and the 85 ethanol gave surprising power loses going uphills. I have had a long day of being stuck indoors.

so ethanol blending.... when injecting ethanol into a load of Regular gasoline at a load rack (into tanker truck)there are a few ways to do it (same with B5 or premixed mid grades or really many other rack delivered products) it can be dumped in at the start then gasoline dropped on top (10% ethanol then 90% RBOB or whatever the blend) it can also be side streamed. When ethanol contacts gasoline for blending the ethanol grows/expands, so it doesn’t mix well when just dumping it in first. Load racks will generally have a static mixer (picture a pipe with fins inside that are angled or create a vortex) the ethanol is injectedjust upstream of this point then the rbob and ethanol statically mix, meaning there isn’t a blade or turbine to mix it. It then exits the static mixer and will usually hit a vortex breaker down stream of the static mixer to “straighten” the flow so it can be accurately metered. It can also be direct injected but it’s uncommon from my knowledge as the volumes and such would be hard on most equipment in that setup and wouldn’t be able to allow the blending and expanding/growth pre main product meter. I’m sure it’s done somewhere.

anyways, sorry for the confusion on E85. It’s not common up here, generally you will see E10 or E6 in the west. Some places depending on source are still Regular (E0). I actually think I only saw E85 that one time. I think it can be ordered from private delivery companies. Race fuels are generally custom orders and not usually available to the public. VP racing being one.

hit me up if I have confused you more

Hi Tyler,

Thanks for the clarification...!

Back story on VP Hydrocarbons. I was at Mid Ohio Racecourse for the SCCA Truck Race. We were the Sunday Race after the Escort 24 hour Showroom Stock Race in which our team Saleen Autosports was fielding three Saleen Mustangs. Steve Saleen had just done a deal with VP for fuel of the Saleen Team. So the race begines, there are fuel stops and tire changes and brake pad changes...all normal stuff. I supported the Mustangs as the fuel guy on the "dead Man" on the fuel tank for refueling. This is a valve that is spring loaded closed so if something happens and the valve is left unattended the valve slams shut...A safety feature So on through the night. Mustangs are doing well but brake problems have been a setback for all three Mustangs. Then early morning the cars come in for fuel and I pull open the dead man valve and Steve Saleen's car starts to run rough. Then it stalls. WTF. Finally the crew chief yells at me to get involved as the crew was clueless on what happened. So I grab my EEC IV diagnostics and dive under the hood. EEC IV gives a system pass. So I pull the cover to the sharader valve on the fuel rail to hook up my fuel pressure gauge and this white crap squirts out. I immediately recognized this as water in the fuel. I yelled at the crew chief that we filled the Mustang with water...Scramble to drop the tank which was quite heavy and the crew was "now what" I shouted to drain it into the empty barrels behind the pit box...Then reinstalling it and refueling from the other pit box we got the Mustang back into the race but many laps down. So VP sent us a barrel of water...Steve came up to me after the race...not a happy camper but asked me how I got it figured out so quickly. My smug answer to him was "because I am good"...and we left it at that.

Oh Yeah...the Truck Race....Steve Saleen won and George Folmer was 2nd in his Ranger....Our First 1-2 of the series! Yeah!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[FloggingBishop]

Hi Tyler,

Thanks for the clarification...!

Back story on VP Hydrocarbons. I was at Mid Ohio Racecourse for the SCCA Truck Race. We were the Sunday Race after the Escort 24 hour Showroom Stock Race in which our team Saleen Autosports was fielding three Saleen Mustangs. Steve Saleen had just done a deal with VP for fuel of the Saleen Team. So the race begines, there are fuel stops and tire changes and brake pad changes...all normal stuff. I supported the Mustangs as the fuel guy on the "dead Man" on the fuel tank for refueling. This is a valve that is spring loaded closed so if something happens and the valve is left unattended the valve slams shut...A safety feature So on through the night. Mustangs are doing well but brake problems have been a setback for all three Mustangs. Then early morning the cars come in for fuel and I pull open the dead man valve and Steve Saleen's car starts to run rough. Then it stalls. WTF. Finally the crew chief yells at me to get involved as the crew was clueless on what happened. So I grab my EEC IV diagnostics and dive under the hood. EEC IV gives a system pass. So I pull the cover to the sharader valve on the fuel rail to hook up my fuel pressure gauge and this white crap squirts out. I immediately recognized this as water in the fuel. I yelled at the crew chief that we filled the Mustang with water...Scramble to drop the tank which was quite heavy and the crew was "now what" I shouted to drain it into the empty barrels behind the pit box...Then reinstalling it and refueling from the other pit box we got the Mustang back into the race but many laps down. So VP sent us a barrel of water...Steve came up to me after the race...not a happy camper but asked me how I got it figured out so quickly. My smug answer to him was "because I am good"...and we left it at that.

Oh Yeah...the Truck Race....Steve Saleen won and George Folmer was 2nd in his Ranger....Our First 1-2 of the series! Yeah!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

I love that story! Saleen is an amazing story, Donut media has a cool piece about Steve on their YouTube. At like $52 (now a days I believe) a gallon for the VP racing fuel I would have been livid. I love those early gen Saleen mustangs.
Thanks for that story!!!

Sponsored