Ecoboost Requires Warmup Before Driving?

[Geoff]

Best bet is to warm up ANY engine somewhat before loading it up with work. It doesn't necessarily have to warm up to operating temp before use but I usually wait at least until the engine idle speed slows down before driving away (tho I don't drive it hard until it's fully warmed up). Like wise it's a really GOOD idea to drive it far enough that the engine does get fully warmed up (and the exhaust system dried out from the condensation formed by the last trip). Lots of short trips are not good for long engine or exhaust life.

Finally consider this.....Pilots always let their engines warm up before use because they want to maximize engine life.

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[VAMike]

Finally consider this.....Pilots always let their engines warm up before use because they want to maximize engine life.

I always thought they let the engines warm up because they don't have the option to drive slowly to bring the engine up to operating temperature, since take off power is usually right about max. That said, doesn't every plane have its own specified warm up procedure, some requiring quite a bit and some basically none?

 

[CoastieN70]

Best bet is to warm up ANY engine somewhat before loading it up with work. It doesn't necessarily have to warm up to operating temp before use but I usually wait at least until the engine idle speed slows down before driving away (tho I don't drive it hard until it's fully warmed up). Like wise it's a really GOOD idea to drive it far enough that the engine does get fully warmed up (and the exhaust system dried out from the condensation formed by the last trip). Lots of short trips are not good for long engine or exhaust life.

Finally consider this.....Pilots always let their engines warm up before use because they want to maximize engine life.

Pilots warm up their engines before takeoff (reciprocating (piston pounders) because they require max or almost max power to get their airplane in the air and then have to operate in rarified air and lower temperatures. Yes this extends engine life but also reduces failure from inadequate oiling, poor fuel mixture and a whole host of other problems.
Automobile engines are a whole different ball game. Carbureted engines benefit from a warm up to allow fuel mixtures to stabilize (come off choke) modern fuel injected engines have a computer to compensate for this. As soon as a steady idle is established you are safe to drive, gently, this actually aids in warmup and good oil circulation BUT just like or intrepid pilot friends, no hard acceleration until temps come up...

 

[P. A. Schilke]

All Ford engines are designed to start and go. If there was a warmup required, it would have to be listed in the Owners Manual and as far as I know this is not listed in any Ford Gas engine owners manual...Cannot speak for the Powerstroke Diesel.
In fact, I believe if you have to warm it up before you go, the Federal Test Procedure for emissions would require this to be part of the emissions test... and this would be disastrous on first bag portion of the emissions FTP... Start and go unless highlighted in the owners manual...Reason for Stop/Start is that there is an idle portion of the test...if the engine is not running, then no emissions in 2nd bag or 3rd bag as I forget which bag is in play when the idle period is entered on the emissions test....Maybe a Calibrator can chime in on this, as I am really behind the times on the FTP. I was on loan from Truck many years ago to interface with California Air Resources Board (CARB) because I was one of the few Engineers that was a mechanic before and while in college.

GM Salesman is full of it for sure...don't forget, that tomorrow he may have switched to Fiat or Ford or Toyota...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retierd

 

[Geoff]

Pilots warm up their engines before takeoff (reciprocating (piston pounders) because they require max or almost max power to get their airplane in the air and then have to operate in rarified air and lower temperatures. Yes this extends engine life but also reduces failure from inadequate oiling, poor fuel mixture and a whole host of other problems.
Automobile engines are a whole different ball game. Carbureted engines benefit from a warm up to allow fuel mixtures to stabilize (come off choke) modern fuel injected engines have a computer to compensate for this. As soon as a steady idle is established you are safe to drive, gently, this actually aids in warmup and good oil circulation BUT just like or intrepid pilot friends, no hard acceleration until temps come up...

Yes, thanks for chiming in. I was way oversimplifying. As I mentioned previously I wait until idle stabilizes before pulling out and don't generally get on it until it's warmewd up.

 

[Geoff]

All Ford engines are designed to start and go. If there was a warmup required, it would have to be listed in the Owners Manual and as far as I know this is not listed in any Ford Gas engine owners manual...Cannot speak for the Powerstroke Diesel.
In fact, I believe if you have to warm it up before you go, the Federal Test Procedure for emissions would require this to be part of the emissions test... and this would be disastrous on first bag portion of the emissions FTP... Start and go unless highlighted in the owners manual...Reason for Stop/Start is that there is an idle portion of the test...if the engine is not running, then no emissions in 2nd bag or 3rd bag as I forget which bag is in play when the idle period is entered on the emissions test....Maybe a Calibrator can chime in on this, as I am really behind the times on the FTP. I was on loan from Truck many years ago to interface with California Air Resources Board (CARB) because I was one of the few Engineers that was a mechanic before and while in college.

GM Salesman is full of it for sure...don't forget, that tomorrow he may have switched to Fiat or Ford or Toyota...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retierd

I have no doubt Ford's position is as you state. But they also limit their liabilities with the limited warranty. I'd expect any 'warm up related issues' to happen well after that.

Bottom line (as with anything) common sense is needed. In Fairbanks at -40º the engine could use a bit more warm up than a truck parked in 105º Texas heat.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I have no doubt Ford's position is as you state. But they also limit their liabilities with the limited warranty. I'd expect any 'warm up related issues' to happen well after that.

Bottom line (as with anything) common sense is needed. In Fairbanks at -40º the engine could use a bit more warm up than a truck parked in 105º Texas heat.

Hi,

Spent several winters in Bemidji Minnesota where temps were -40 with our prototype trucks. Our process was to sit in the truck and record the thermocouple readings...some 200 readings. (this is before data loggers) It was so cold we had to use pencils as pens would not work. We were hooked up to an instrumentation van as well. On command from the van, we started cranking the vehicle, the van measured crank times, cranking amps, etc. and first fire followed by when the vehicle started to run with the cranking motor released. The people in the van unplugged us and we put the truck in gear and took off on a stop start rout on public roads...we had a beacon on the roof to alert of a test in progress but locals tolerated us as we brought $ to their local economy. Some stops we recorded all the thermocouples again and finally when the vehicle was at operating temp we recorded temps again. This was repeated for 4 more days....We froze our A$$s off...Brrrrrrrrrrrrr! So even at -40 it was start and go...

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Geoff]

Hi,

Spent several winters in Bemidji Minnesota where temps were -40 with our prototype trucks. Our process was to sit in the truck and record the thermocouple readings...some 200 readings. (this is before data loggers) It was so cold we had to use pencils as pens would not work. We were hooked up to an instrumentation van as well. On command from the van, we started cranking the vehicle, the van measured crank times, cranking amps, etc. and first fire followed by when the vehicle started to run with the cranking motor released. The people in the van unplugged us and we put the truck in gear and took off on a stop start rout on public roads...we had a beacon on the roof to alert of a test in progress but locals tolerated us as we brought $ to their local economy. Some stops we recorded all the thermocouples again and finally when the vehicle was at operating temp we recorded temps again. This was repeated for 4 more days....We froze our A$$s off...Brrrrrrrrrrrrr! So even at -40 it was start and go...

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

That's good testing! I understand from Ford's point of view. Looking at this from a design and engineering perspective it has to be capable of startup and go. The testing you describe is definitely appropriate and undoubtedly gathered invaluable engineering data. That is practical and wise from an engineering perspective. Those tests were of limited duration though as you state.

Now then, what would the results be if you lived in -40º weather and had 150,000 miles of start up and go without warmup experience? It'll probably be burning oil by then, if not soon thereafter. Engine wear does not favor start up and go - most wear on an engine is at startup. Ford offers engine oil heaters. Oil mfgs introduced 0w multi viscosity oil because it flows better at startup. Just because it can startup and go doesn't mean that is always the sensible thing to do.

Ford doesn't really have to 'worry about' engine wear because of their limited warranties. But anyone like myself who hopes to keep it for many miles, a few minutes of warmup certainly helps.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

That's good testing! I understand from Ford's point of view. Looking at this from a design and engineering perspective it has to be capable of startup and go. The testing you describe is definitely appropriate and undoubtedly gathered invaluable engineering data. That is practical and wise from an engineering perspective. Those tests were of limited duration though as you state.

Now then, what would the results be if you lived in -40º weather and had 150,000 miles of start up and go without warmup experience? It'll probably be burning oil by then, if not soon thereafter. Engine wear does not favor start up and go - most wear on an engine is at startup. Ford offers engine oil heaters. Oil mfgs introduced 0w multi viscosity oil because it flows better at startup. Just because it can startup and go doesn't mean that is always the sensible thing to do.

Ford doesn't really have to 'worry about' engine wear because of their limited warranties. But anyone like myself who hopes to keep it for many miles, a few minutes of warmup certainly helps.

Hi Geoff,

A bit more info...Engine Engineering has access to cold rooms that are at -40°F (or C for that matter as this is the same temp on either scale) and they soak engines on roll around test stands. They start the engines and simulate the number of starts in 150,000 miles to make sure the engines can survive in that environment...This is well beyond any warranty and we test vehicles to the equivalent of 150,000 miles of durability of a 90 percentile customer...Purolator Carrier in Los Angeles, Oil rig support in Texas, mining operations in Arizona...these are 90 percentile customers.

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

One would think Ford would supply you with warm clothes suited for the environment so you wouldnt freeze your ass off.

Hi Jeff,

Cold room attire was available but not enough room in the suitcase for real clothes. Bemidji test facility was a Quansithut...no room for clothes...So we just gutted it out. Besides these Cold Weather development trips dovetailed with a drive to Arizona Proving Grounds for warm weather testing and the cold weather gear would just be in the way...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co.

 

[Geoff]

Hi Geoff,

A bit more info...Engine Engineering has access to cold rooms that are at -40°F (or C for that matter as this is the same temp on either scale) and they soak engines on roll around test stands. They start the engines and simulate the number of starts in 150,000 miles to make sure the engines can survive in that environment...This is well beyond any warranty and we test vehicles to the equivalent of 150,000 miles of durability of a 90 percentile customer...Purolator Carrier in Los Angeles, Oil rig support in Texas, mining operations in Arizona...these are 90 percentile customers.

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired.

Hi Phil,
Thanks for the info. It's good stuff.
I guess I'm not surprised that Ford tests as you described. With as many engines Ford has under warranty at any one point in time it only makes sense to test the hell out of them (or, as 'The Martian' would say, "Science the hell of it").

That said, I'm still not sold on 'start-n-go' and will be letting my engine warmup somewhat before putting it to work. To me it's only common sense (but I got that burned into my brain by Dad when he was teaching me to drive). It may not be necessary [as you point out] but it cannot hurt.

Thanks again....your posts are informative!!!!

 

[VAMike]

That said, I'm still not sold on 'start-n-go' and will be letting my engine warmup somewhat before putting it to work. To me it's only common sense (but I got that burned into my brain by Dad when he was teaching me to drive). It may not be necessary [as you point out] but it cannot hurt.

It actually can--extended idling of a cold engine is harder on it than driving gently, because it takes longer to get up to operating temperature. The "warm up" mindset dates to carburetors, and is just bad practice on a modern engine.

 

[Geoff]

It actually can--extended idling of a cold engine is harder on it than driving gently, because it takes longer to get up to operating temperature. The "warm up" mindset dates to carburetors, and is just bad practice on a modern engine.

Nobody said anything about extended idling. I'm talking about - maybe - a minute or two (depending on temp).

 

[TBM837]

Anyone notice the motor shimmy for a bit upon cold startup? I have and a call to Ford is in order. It's a regular issue and I've had mine for about a month. Software issue???

 

[Kataphrakt]

Hi Geoff,

A bit more info...Engine Engineering has access to cold rooms that are at -40°F (or C for that matter as this is the same temp on either scale) and they soak engines on roll around test stands. They start the engines and simulate the number of starts in 150,000 miles to make sure the engines can survive in that environment...This is well beyond any warranty and we test vehicles to the equivalent of 150,000 miles of durability of a 90 percentile customer...Purolator Carrier in Los Angeles, Oil rig support in Texas, mining operations in Arizona...these are 90 percentile customers.

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired.

MMMM, during summer i always love pulling test samples out of our -40 test chambers at the auto supplier i work it. Much better than pulling samples out of the 85C 85% RH chambers that try to steam-clean your face...

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