Bucking/Surging Epidemic

[Publius]

DFPE Sensor replaced on warranty at 9500 miles by Elder Ford in Tampa. Just got it back. And it is noticeably smoother on acceleration and deceleration. Used to lightly ride peddle and it kept jerking as I took foot off gas.

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[ChiefQM]

I tripped over this thread this week after reading most of the other transmission threads. Those who have seen me rant about my selling dealer over the past two and a half years may remember my anger and outrage that Ford and not only the selling dealer but another dealer in the county had absolutely zero interest in trying to solve the bucking issue, telling me it was "just a herky-jerky 10 speed" and getting me to drive other Rangers with the same issue, trying to sell me on the idea that the bucking was 'normal'. Well, Wednesday I ordered the EGR Valve Position Sensor, KA1Z5L200A from my local dealer in northwest GA and picked it up from the dealer yesterday. Typical of current parts business protocols, there were none at the dealership but 112 available at the warehouse in Atlanta and it was available the next day. Anyway, what I ordered was only the sensor and not the assembly that came with the the hoses, as I considered that an unnecessary expenditure. I did stop at my local parts purveyor and picked up four 5/16 band clamps, as I had seen the crimp-on clamps Ford used at the sensor. I finally (involved getting a flattened box to lay over the battery and engine compartment and a stepladder to get my short-statured body up high enough to lay in the engine compartment. Naturally, I couldn't reach the spring clamps on the tubes easily, so what should have been a ten minute job took about an hour. And I had to use a sheet metal cutter to get the crimp-on clamps off the sensor. But installation of the new sensor did only take about 5 minutes as the clamps I bought worked fine. I test drove the truck and not only did it run like a scalded dog, I found I could leave it in Drive, going up a hill, at 1500 RPMS and at 40 miles an hour WITHOUT BUCKING!!! BUCKY DON' BUCK NO MO'!!!! I am going to share my experience with Ford and Walker Ford in Clearwater FL and express my annoyance that they refused to properly trouble-shoot this issue and treated me like I was the problem. I seriously doubt they will care that for under $20 and a few minutes labor the problem (for me) was fixed, but I will feel better.

 

[Novaman71]

Now that you’ve solved that. Get a vapor catch can or you’ll be doing it again in 15k miles because the crankcase vapors will trash the new one eventually .

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I tripped over this thread this week after reading most of the other transmission threads. Those who have seen me rant about my selling dealer over the past two and a half years may remember my anger and outrage that Ford and not only the selling dealer but another dealer in the county had absolutely zero interest in trying to solve the bucking issue, telling me it was "just a herky-jerky 10 speed" and getting me to drive other Rangers with the same issue, trying to sell me on the idea that the bucking was 'normal'. Well, Wednesday I ordered the EGR Valve Position Sensor, KA1Z5L200A from my local dealer in northwest GA and picked it up from the dealer yesterday. Typical of current parts business protocols, there were none at the dealership but 112 available at the warehouse in Atlanta and it was available the next day. Anyway, what I ordered was only the sensor and not the assembly that came with the the hoses, as I considered that an unnecessary expenditure. I did stop at my local parts purveyor and picked up four 5/16 band clamps, as I had seen the crimp-on clamps Ford used at the sensor. I finally (involved getting a flattened box to lay over the battery and engine compartment and a stepladder to get my short-statured body up high enough to lay in the engine compartment. Naturally, I couldn't reach the spring clamps on the tubes easily, so what should have been a ten minute job took about an hour. And I had to use a sheet metal cutter to get the crimp-on clamps off the sensor. But installation of the new sensor did only take about 5 minutes as the clamps I bought worked fine. I test drove the truck and not only did it run like a scalded dog, I found I could leave it in Drive, going up a hill, at 1500 RPMS and at 40 miles an hour WITHOUT BUCKING!!! BUCKY DON' BUCK NO MO'!!!! I am going to share my experience with Ford and Walker Ford in Clearwater FL and express my annoyance that they refused to properly trouble-shoot this issue and treated me like I was the problem. I seriously doubt they will care that for under $20 and a few minutes labor the problem (for me) was fixed, but I will feel better.

Hi Bill,

I continue to be saddened by these type of posts that reflect such poor dealer to customer experiences. This is an on going saga, such that I told my engineers that we have to ensure the customer does not have to return to the dealer for service. While impossible to be 100% effective, we did reduce warranty visits to the dealer substantially, but it came at a price, added cost to ensure quality of parts and systems. Bean counters dinged me all the time as I missed my affordable targets... Oh well. The customer of the 4G benefited and to a degree this is why there are so many 4G Rangers still in service...

Farley has addressed the sales side, but the service side is woefully lacking oversight.

Open a Formal complaint with Ford Customer Care relative to the dealer in question...enough complaints can result in punitive action on Ford's part. How? No delivers of Hot Selling cars and trucks for a time period. Does not happen often but it can be done.

You are fortunate to be able to do the work on the EGR Sensor yourself...Most folks cannot. They depend on the dealer service department.

Hope your Ranger now performs to your expectations.

Best,
Phil

 

[ChiefQM]

Hi Bill,

I continue to be saddened by these type of posts that reflect such poor dealer to customer experiences. This is an on going saga, such that I told my engineers that we have to ensure the customer does not have to return to the dealer for service. While impossible to be 100% effective, we did reduce warranty visits to the dealer substantially, but it came at a price, added cost to ensure quality of parts and systems. Bean counters dinged me all the time as I missed my affordable targets... Oh well. The customer of the 4G benefited and to a degree this is why there are so many 4G Rangers still in service...

Farley has addressed the sales side, but the service side is woefully lacking oversight.

Open a Formal complaint with Ford Customer Care relative to the dealer in question...enough complaints can result in punitive action on Ford's part. How? No delivers of Hot Selling cars and trucks for a time period. Does not happen often but it can be done.

You are fortunate to be able to do the work on the EGR Sensor yourself...Most folks cannot. They depend on the dealer service department.

Hope your Ranger now performs to your expectations.

Best,
Phil

Thanks, Phil, I love driving the Ranger without having to shift to Sport or Tow Mode when going up a hill or driving at normal city speeds. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[Racket]

Now that you’ve solved that. Get a vapor catch can or you’ll be doing it again in 15k miles because the crankcase vapors will trash the new one eventually .

I'm suddenly thinking about getting the spare to have on hand in case mine starts acting up but then I've had a catch can since the truck has had about 1500 miles on it (high 30K now). I don't know if I imagine odd problems with 'stumbling' between just under 30 - just under 50 but not really issues with shift points. But then I have the soft shift file in my Unleashed tune as well.

As far as fuel I've used mostly midgrade or higher 10% ethanol though if I find E30 I will buy it exclusively. Ethanol free 90 octane - I figured being less hydroscopic would run smoother even if not as much power (perceived) as 93 E10 or 94 E30 but so far not so much.

My truck was summer 2019 build so no Feb build ECU issue..

Catch can or no CC, tune or stock I really think the issue is the sensor itself being so frail.

Interesting suggestion a catch can might mitigate the failure.

This thread seems important ?

 

[BladeRanger]

I tripped over this thread this week after reading most of the other transmission threads. Those who have seen me rant about my selling dealer over the past two and a half years may remember my anger and outrage that Ford and not only the selling dealer but another dealer in the county had absolutely zero interest in trying to solve the bucking issue, telling me it was "just a herky-jerky 10 speed" and getting me to drive other Rangers with the same issue, trying to sell me on the idea that the bucking was 'normal'. Well, Wednesday I ordered the EGR Valve Position Sensor, KA1Z5L200A from my local dealer in northwest GA and picked it up from the dealer yesterday. Typical of current parts business protocols, there were none at the dealership but 112 available at the warehouse in Atlanta and it was available the next day. Anyway, what I ordered was only the sensor and not the assembly that came with the the hoses, as I considered that an unnecessary expenditure. I did stop at my local parts purveyor and picked up four 5/16 band clamps, as I had seen the crimp-on clamps Ford used at the sensor. I finally (involved getting a flattened box to lay over the battery and engine compartment and a stepladder to get my short-statured body up high enough to lay in the engine compartment. Naturally, I couldn't reach the spring clamps on the tubes easily, so what should have been a ten minute job took about an hour. And I had to use a sheet metal cutter to get the crimp-on clamps off the sensor. But installation of the new sensor did only take about 5 minutes as the clamps I bought worked fine. I test drove the truck and not only did it run like a scalded dog, I found I could leave it in Drive, going up a hill, at 1500 RPMS and at 40 miles an hour WITHOUT BUCKING!!! BUCKY DON' BUCK NO MO'!!!! I am going to share my experience with Ford and Walker Ford in Clearwater FL and express my annoyance that they refused to properly trouble-shoot this issue and treated me like I was the problem. I seriously doubt they will care that for under $20 and a few minutes labor the problem (for me) was fixed, but I will feel better.

Awesome share, bro. Glad you got the bucking fixed.

 

[ParamotorPilot]

TL;DR: This fixed my issue too.

UPDATE:
Installed and test drove it yesterday, everything was fine.
Got in this morning and found a CEL on.
Called up the codes, EGR not working, realized that I had not reconnected the wires.
But this is an interesting concept: if you want to know if this could be a fix, try driving with it disconnected.
I watch South Main Auto on YT all the time and that was one of his suggestions in a recent video when troubleshooting intermittent issues; disconnect the suspected offending component, if possible. He also warned that a CEL would come on but if the symptoms go away, you know what was causing them.

Also one other note: as I've been reading here I've understood that this component is a flow sensor of some kind. But based on labeling and the fact that it is blocked when disconnected, I think it's a valve and maybe has a sensor integrated.
Do I need to read the entire post again?

Long version:
- 2019 Ranger Lariat shirt cab, bought new in July 2019.
- Currently 49k miles
- Installed a UPR catch can in Jan 2021 at 23k miles, with external drain, empty it every refill, have something more than a pint collected now.
- Fuel is exclusively regular Top Tier, usually from Costco.
- Have several thousand miles towing a light camper trailer but with the wind resistance of a Cutty Sark at full sail.
- Paid $19.74 at the local south Atlanta dealer, needed to order, arrived next day.
- The dealership had only ever used one other one of these, also on a Ranger.
- Used fuel line hose clamps from AutoZone
- Noticed that one nipple is larger on the part.
- Briefed the service manager on the results and the information here

---

Started noticing some surging/bucking around 10-20k miles ago.
The issue was difficult to define but eventually got bad enough that I understood how to kind of reproduce it: start out slow on an incline and keep light on the gas. It felt like the throttle position sensor had dropouts where the throttle would switch on and off.
So: low speed, some load, light throttle.
I also observed this on Forscan.

Went to the dealer and had an update installed. It seemed to help but I think only until the driving style was relearned.

Discussed it with the service manage (had talked to him previously about the catch can install) one Saturday while my wife's car was being serviced, he said bring it in 4 weeks later when he'll be there again.
Done as asked, he first kept me waiting for over an hour but when he did the test drive (I had just recovered from COVID so didn't go with him), he confirmed, said it was probably the torque converter as they had been having issues with that power train, though not on the Ranger so much.
I made an appointment for a full diagnosis (that took another month of waiting), brought it in at 7:30, called them back around 4pm and they said it's not the transmission but seems to be related to either the fuel or EGR.

That was this past Monday so later in the evening I started searching and found this forum
Ordered the part on Tuesday (the one without the hoses), explained it to the maintenance adviser. Turns out three other vehicles were before mine so I retrieved the truck when the part arrived, and just finished installing it a few hours ago.
Test drive definitely feels better, I'm going to call it fixed unless something changes and the symptoms return.
It's kind of hard to be certain because the feeling can mimic road bumps but I'm pretty sure it's gone.

Installing it took a lot longer than the 10 minutes generally reported, especially if search for dropped tools time is included (I found the wrench because I needed it to finish the job but the 10mm socket is gone forever. :-( )

Was planning on flushing the original part but that's no possible because air won't go through it while it's disconnected from the vehicle.

 

[ChiefQM]

I got around to sending a message to Ford about the issues and the fix identified on this forum.

 

[BladeRanger]

TL;DR: This fixed my issue too.

Long version:
- 2019 Ranger Lariat shirt cab, bought new in July 2019.
- Currently 49k miles
- Installed a UPR catch can in Jan 2021 at 23k miles, with external drain, empty it every refill, have something more than a pint collected now.
- Fuel is exclusively regular Top Tier, usually from Costco.
- Have several thousand miles towing a light camper trailer but with the wind resistance of a Cutty Sark at full sail.
- Paid $19.74 at the local south Atlanta dealer, needed to order, arrived next day.
- The dealership had only ever used one other one of these, also on a Ranger.
- Used fuel line hose clamps from AutoZone
- Noticed that one nipple is larger on the part.
- Briefed the service manager on the results and the information here

---

Started noticing some surging/bucking around 10-20k miles ago.
The issue was difficult to define but eventually got bad enough that I understood how to kind of reproduce it: start out slow on an incline and keep light on the gas. It felt like the throttle position sensor had dropouts where the throttle would switch on and off.
So: low speed, some load, light throttle.
I also observed this on Forscan.

Went to the dealer and had an update installed. It seemed to help but I think only until the driving style was relearned.

Discussed it with the service manage (had talked to him previously about the catch can install) one Saturday while my wife's car was being serviced, he said bring it in 4 weeks later when he'll be there again.
Done as asked, he first kept me waiting for over an hour but when he did the test drive (I had just recovered from COVID so didn't go with him), he confirmed, said it was probably the torque converter as they had been having issues with that power train, though not on the Ranger so much.
I made an appointment for a full diagnosis (that took another month of waiting), brought it in at 7:30, called them back around 4pm and they said it's not the transmission but seems to be related to either the fuel or EGR.

That was this past Monday so later in the evening I started searching and found this forum
Ordered the part on Tuesday (the one without the hoses), explained it to the maintenance adviser. Turns out three other vehicles were before mine so I retrieved the truck when the part arrived, and just finished installing it a few hours ago.
Test drive definitely feels better, I'm going to call it fixed unless something changes and the symptoms return.
It's kind of hard to be certain because the feeling can mimic road bumps but I'm pretty sure it's gone.

Installing it took a lot longer than the 10 minutes generally reported, especially if search for dropped tools time is included (I found the wrench because I needed it to finish the job but the 10mm socket is gone forever. :-( )

Was planning on flushing the original part but that's no possible because air won't go through it while it's disconnected from the vehicle.

I replaced my EGR sensor last month and it rides better and also before I replaced the EGR the dealership did a fuel induction service couple of months ago and that help with bucking and surging as well. I just replace the EGR cause I bought mine last year when this forum first came up with the issue and figure everyone will be ordering the sensor.

 

[dtech]

IIRC correct Ford is changing the EGR system for the 2.3 - the term may have been an "internal egr" not sure what that means but if it's done via the CVVT that is good news from a reliability perspective. I can understand why Ford leads the industry in recalls - if this egr system is any example - it's cheaply made.

 

[dillback]

Anybody have their issues return? I replaced the sensor exactly a year ago, and I've noticed the bucking has returned when holding steady at 50 km/h (is that 35 mph? ). So I've ordered up 2 more sensors. 2019 with only 18,000 Kms

 

[ParamotorPilot]

Now that you’ve solved that. Get a vapor catch can or you’ll be doing it again in 15k miles because the crankcase vapors will trash the new one eventually .

I installed a UPR catch can about 30k miles ago, didn't seem to prevent the sensor from causing the dealer confusion and me some annoyance.

 

[BladeRanger]

Anybody have their issues return? I replaced the sensor exactly a year ago, and I've noticed the bucking has returned when holding steady at 50 km/h (is that 35 mph? ). So I've ordered up 2 more sensors. 2019 with only 18,000 Kms

Let us know after you replace it?

 

[Msfitoy]

This has been said a few time here on this thread but there seems to be much confusion. Below are the 2 "different" part numbers in question. Number 14 here Includes Number 15. In most all cases all a person probably needs is Number 15 (KA1Z-5L00-A). The more expensive one just comes with hoses and a clip. Our trucks aren't old enough to need hoses replaced so save yourself some dough. These are back in stock as well here in Jan 2023.

Thanks for the clarification Adam...there's the third sensor referred to as the DFPE Sensor...which one is this?

I experienced this a year ago and briefly mentioned it on my build thread. This hesitation at throttle tip in cause my truck to lurch when trying to roll from a stop. My plugs are new as are the ignition cables so those were ruled out. I had a tech check the codes and none were found. Suspecting it might be the throttle body sticking, I shot TB cleaner into it and that seemed to helped for a day or two. But the issue returned with varying degrees of annoyance.

Fast forward one year later and following my disasterous transmission failure/replacement going into 100K mark, this lurch/hesitation has reappeared with greater presence. As described by many, the symptoms occur at steady slow speeds such as going through neighborhoods or school zones. Another symptom not described by others is after parking briefly such as pumping gas or running into a store. When I restart my truck, the throttle hesitations is very prominent as if there is huge flat spot at throttle tip in. This makes it difficult to modulate until I've gotten back onto the street where greater input can be applied. After that, it returns to "normal" until I get into another slow speed bucking or shut off/restart.

After 25 pages, it appears that the KA1Z-5L200A is the most direct fix. The EGR vacuum control has doubled in price to $80! I'll try the cheaper sensor to start and see how it goes...

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