Advice on Build and Pricing

greypilgrim76

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Hi All,

So I’ve just joined the Ranger5G forum, but I’ve been reading the posts here pretty in-depth for a few weeks now. After six years of driving my 2011 Kia Soul (which is actually a pretty dang reliable little car), I’ve decided it’s time to get my first truck. We used to borrow my in-laws’ F-450 whenever we needed a truck, but they’ve recently retired and moved to Oregon, and we only have the Kia and a Subaru Outback (which will actually hold an astonishing amount of cargo, but doesn’t work well for bags of mulch, large appliances, etc.). Back in the ‘90s, half the kids I was in high school with seemed to have a Ranger, and I always liked them, so that’s where my mind went when I started thinking “truck,” and honestly, after doing a lot of research online and checking out various brands at local dealerships, I’m convinced that the Ranger’s probably the best choice for my needs, which are mostly commuting, hauling my family around (crew cab for sure), possibly some mild winter driving (though we’ve also got the Subaru for that), and the odd trip onto backroads for fishing or mushroom hunting.

Based on these needs and some convenience preferences, here’s the Ranger I want:

2021 XLT SuperCrew 4x2
Trailer Tow Package
Reverse Sensing System
Electronic-Locking Rear Differential
110V AC Power Outlet

The base XLT package gets me everything else I care about, except for rearview mirror upgrade, but I don’t think that’s worth the cost of the package upgrade it’s part of. I also plan to get a spray-on bedliner, running boards, and a box extender, but it looks to me like all of those can be had cheaper as aftermarket upgrades. I’ve looked at the used market, of course, but in my corner of the Midwest, used trucks demand such a premium that I’d only be saving a grand or two on a truck that’s already got 15–20k miles on it, so new just makes a lot more sense to me, especially with the warranty that comes along for the ride, to buy new.

I’ve been in conversation with a salesperson at our local Ford dealership who’s been quite helpful, and she and I have mostly reached the conclusion that ordering a Ranger is the best way to get what I’m looking for and not pay for things I’m not. I’m not in any huge hurry, so the 3-month (or more, depending on chip availability) wait estimate’s not a problem, and she says that I can lock in the current incentive ($1750 rebate) and add any incentives that pop up before it arrives. Overall, I’m currently at the beginning of what I’d call the “final negotiation” stage of things.

Having bought exactly one new car in my life (in an unusual deal on an early lease return issue) and having never bought a truck, though, I thought I’d finally jump in here and ask a few questions, since y’all seem to know waaaay more about this stuff than I do.

First, a few questions about the build:

-The standalone locking rear differential is about $175 cheaper than the full FX2 package, and it’s the only feature in that package that I know I want. (I’m not an offroader, so a 4x4 would be overkill for a primarily commuter truck, but a little extra ability to get unstuck would come in handy.) Most of the other stuff in the FX2 package doesn’t seem particularly important to me (decal, a/t tires, tow hooks, off-road screen cluster, plastic quasi-skid plate), but I’m not sure about the “offroad-tuned suspension,” since none of Ford’s literature that I can find really explains what that means. As somebody who’s been driving a Kia Soul around for more than half a decade, I suspect any new Ranger is going to be a solid improvement in the “smooth ride” category, but I’m not sure whether the offroad suspension would give me a smoother ride than the standard. I mostly just want to avoid feeling every pothole and railroad track in my spine. :)

-Also, am I undervaluing any of the other FX2 features? Is it worth the extra $175 based on my preferences?

-Does anyone know if Ford will add the rearview mirror upgrade without the 301 package?

-Finally, am I completely missing any upgrades that you think are important? (Other than the aftermarket ones I mentioned?)

My other questions are about negotiating the final price of the truck. After some back-and-forth with the salesperson, she’s offering to order the Ranger XLT I’ve described above (which has an MSRP w/ D&D of $33,385) for a sale price of $30,365, which includes the current $1750 Ford rebate plus the “dealer discount.” With tax, title, and license, it’d have a final OTD price of $32,835.63. In looking over pricing info online, KBB puts the “fair purchase price” in the range of $31,097–$33,094, with their average price at $32,096. Edmunds’ suggested price is $30,488. The invoice docs I found elsewhere in the forum show the total invoice price for this truck w/buyback, before the Ford rebate, to be $32,073 (including D&D), so this leads me to believe that the truck costs the local dealership $30,323 after the rebate. But that means they’d be making a profit of $42 off the sale, which doesn’t seem right to me, especially considering that the salesperson put her price out there without much prodding from me.

So, here are my questions:

-Does $32,835.63 OTD in a state with 7% sales tax (Indiana) seem to be in the ballpark of a good deal?

-Am I missing something in these numbers? (I buy cars so infrequently that I’m just not super savvy about this part of things.)

-If you think there is room for negotiation, do you think it’d be better to ask for further discount or some sort of additional equipment at this price? (Remote start, for example.)

Okay, I think that’s it for now. I know this was a super-long post, especially for a new guy, but I’ve found the posts here to be extremely helpful so far, so I figured I’d see what y’all thought about these specifics.

Of course, thanks for any help you can offer!

-Chris
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driverdenali

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Honestly it’s not that bad of a deal, because your getting a truck you like, there is always a better deal out there for new, but how long do you want to look. Personally the fx package is worth it dependent on what you need from it, the fx4 suspension isn’t great, but it’s also leagues above the oem suspension. The skid plate is steel, at least on my truck it is, it’s thin though. That bearing said i bought The fx4 package on my truck cause it didn’t add anything to the cost i think I paid an additional 450$. L Also trucks are priced dependent per region, my truck is an xl stx with fx4 and i paid 34k otd.

i also always advise to drive to a different dealership and get quotes at multiples, i went to all six dealers near my house and they varied in price on the same exact truck from 34k being the lowest and 39k being the highest.

plus if you do want fx2features tons of guys sell fx4 parts on the forums here and you can easily upgrade. Highly recommend the locker though, even though it’s not the greatest, I’ll be switching to hydro or air shortly myself.

just shop around and don’t pull the trigger at the first Ford dealership you see.

Cheers and can’t wait to have ya back posting on the new acquisition thread!
 

Larrykime

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Hi All,

So I’ve just joined the Ranger5G forum, but I’ve been reading the posts here pretty in-depth for a few weeks now. After six years of driving my 2011 Kia Soul (which is actually a pretty dang reliable little car), I’ve decided it’s time to get my first truck. We used to borrow my in-laws’ F-450 whenever we needed a truck, but they’ve recently retired and moved to Oregon, and we only have the Kia and a Subaru Outback (which will actually hold an astonishing amount of cargo, but doesn’t work well for bags of mulch, large appliances, etc.). Back in the ‘90s, half the kids I was in high school with seemed to have a Ranger, and I always liked them, so that’s where my mind went when I started thinking “truck,” and honestly, after doing a lot of research online and checking out various brands at local dealerships, I’m convinced that the Ranger’s probably the best choice for my needs, which are mostly commuting, hauling my family around (crew cab for sure), possibly some mild winter driving (though we’ve also got the Subaru for that), and the odd trip onto backroads for fishing or mushroom hunting.

Based on these needs and some convenience preferences, here’s the Ranger I want:

2021 XLT SuperCrew 4x2
Trailer Tow Package
Reverse Sensing System
Electronic-Locking Rear Differential
110V AC Power Outlet

The base XLT package gets me everything else I care about, except for rearview mirror upgrade, but I don’t think that’s worth the cost of the package upgrade it’s part of. I also plan to get a spray-on bedliner, running boards, and a box extender, but it looks to me like all of those can be had cheaper as aftermarket upgrades. I’ve looked at the used market, of course, but in my corner of the Midwest, used trucks demand such a premium that I’d only be saving a grand or two on a truck that’s already got 15–20k miles on it, so new just makes a lot more sense to me, especially with the warranty that comes along for the ride, to buy new.

I’ve been in conversation with a salesperson at our local Ford dealership who’s been quite helpful, and she and I have mostly reached the conclusion that ordering a Ranger is the best way to get what I’m looking for and not pay for things I’m not. I’m not in any huge hurry, so the 3-month (or more, depending on chip availability) wait estimate’s not a problem, and she says that I can lock in the current incentive ($1750 rebate) and add any incentives that pop up before it arrives. Overall, I’m currently at the beginning of what I’d call the “final negotiation” stage of things.

Having bought exactly one new car in my life (in an unusual deal on an early lease return issue) and having never bought a truck, though, I thought I’d finally jump in here and ask a few questions, since y’all seem to know waaaay more about this stuff than I do.

First, a few questions about the build:

-The standalone locking rear differential is about $175 cheaper than the full FX2 package, and it’s the only feature in that package that I know I want. (I’m not an offroader, so a 4x4 would be overkill for a primarily commuter truck, but a little extra ability to get unstuck would come in handy.) Most of the other stuff in the FX2 package doesn’t seem particularly important to me (decal, a/t tires, tow hooks, off-road screen cluster, plastic quasi-skid plate), but I’m not sure about the “offroad-tuned suspension,” since none of Ford’s literature that I can find really explains what that means. As somebody who’s been driving a Kia Soul around for more than half a decade, I suspect any new Ranger is going to be a solid improvement in the “smooth ride” category, but I’m not sure whether the offroad suspension would give me a smoother ride than the standard. I mostly just want to avoid feeling every pothole and railroad track in my spine. :)

-Also, am I undervaluing any of the other FX2 features? Is it worth the extra $175 based on my preferences?

-Does anyone know if Ford will add the rearview mirror upgrade without the 301 package?

-Finally, am I completely missing any upgrades that you think are important? (Other than the aftermarket ones I mentioned?)

My other questions are about negotiating the final price of the truck. After some back-and-forth with the salesperson, she’s offering to order the Ranger XLT I’ve described above (which has an MSRP w/ D&D of $33,385) for a sale price of $30,365, which includes the current $1750 Ford rebate plus the “dealer discount.” With tax, title, and license, it’d have a final OTD price of $32,835.63. In looking over pricing info online, KBB puts the “fair purchase price” in the range of $31,097–$33,094, with their average price at $32,096. Edmunds’ suggested price is $30,488. The invoice docs I found elsewhere in the forum show the total invoice price for this truck w/buyback, before the Ford rebate, to be $32,073 (including D&D), so this leads me to believe that the truck costs the local dealership $30,323 after the rebate. But that means they’d be making a profit of $42 off the sale, which doesn’t seem right to me, especially considering that the salesperson put her price out there without much prodding from me.

So, here are my questions:

-Does $32,835.63 OTD in a state with 7% sales tax (Indiana) seem to be in the ballpark of a good deal?

-Am I missing something in these numbers? (I buy cars so infrequently that I’m just not super savvy about this part of things.)

-If you think there is room for negotiation, do you think it’d be better to ask for further discount or some sort of additional equipment at this price? (Remote start, for example.)

Okay, I think that’s it for now. I know this was a super-long post, especially for a new guy, but I’ve found the posts here to be extremely helpful so far, so I figured I’d see what y’all thought about these specifics.

Of course, thanks for any help you can offer!

-Chris
My experience was almost identical to yours. I custom Ordered a 2021, I paid basically full price. I selected the locking deferential over the FX2 and 4X4. I am very happy with what I have and the price I paid.

When ordering you get exactly what you want, often you will pay a little more in both time and money to get everything perfect. you could probably find a truck on a dealers lot that is close to what you want at a lower price, however it would not be your special ordered, one of a kind, built just for Chris, kind of truck. Also there seems to be a lot of delays in receiving the trucks for the people that order them.

Bottom like simply is get what every you want, in the long run the actual price is not as relevant as happiness. The price you pay is a one time thing. the truck is a many year thing.

As far as mods and accessories, you came to the wrong place, this forum will have you spending thousands on your truck making it your own. just check out the threads for the tailgate dampener, the mirror folding mod, all of the options for leveling, tires and suspension.

as far as 4X2 vs FX2 vs 4X4 vs FX4, the only suspension that people do not complain about is the standard 4X2. you DO NOT want the standard off road suspension on the Ranger, especially if you are not doing heavy off road.

Larry
 

Sheepdog

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We have the standard 4x2 suspension, and it's crap too. We're gonna do King 2.5s with reservoirs and compression adjusters, Deaver rear leaf springs, and Camburg upper control arms...
 
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greypilgrim76

greypilgrim76

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Honestly it’s not that bad of a deal, because your getting a truck you like, there is always a better deal out there for new, but how long do you want to look.
I definitely see the added value in getting the exact truck I want. I'm definitely not one of those people who's got to nickel and dime the dealership down to the bedrock before I'm happy, but I'm also wired to really hate leaving bigger chunks of money on the table. Like, if this OTD price is $1k too high, that'd bug me.

If my calculations are right, if I just took this offer, I'd get exactly the truck I want for just a hair less than 10% off MSRP and within a few bucks of invoice. That seems good to me, but I guess it wouldn't be if everyone else is getting 15% off. :) I've perused the "what are you paying for your Ranger" thread, and it's sort of all over the place. A lot of deals that look like mine, but also some that seem almost impossibly good.

Buying a new vehicle is sort of mystifying on the price side of things, innit?
 
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Sheepdog

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We thought we were going to have to order a truck to get a 4x2 with the Electronic Locking Rear Differential and to avoid the option-bloated Rangers sitting on the dealer's lots, but we found this stripper XL SuperCrew unicorn with Electronic Locking Rear Differential, towing package, and cruise, about 90 miles away, and picked it up for $28K...

20210401_184711.jpg


We ordered Method wheels and 33" BFG tires the next day...
 

Motorpsychology

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I ordered a 2021 Ranger last February and sold my 2018 Escape to Carvana. Simple process, got more than the dealer offered, even giving up the car now rather than waiting until my Ranger came in. I got a check for exactly what they quoted me online and they picked it up no extra charge.
I would deal with them again.
 
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greypilgrim76

greypilgrim76

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My experience was almost identical to yours. I custom Ordered a 2021, I paid basically full price. I selected the locking deferential over the FX2 and 4X4. I am very happy with what I have and the price I paid.
This is good to hear. It's always hard to gauge other people's opinions when they're applied to significantly different builds.

as far as 4X2 vs FX2 vs 4X4 vs FX4, the only suspension that people do not complain about is the standard 4X2. you DO NOT want the standard off road suspension on the Ranger, especially if you are not doing heavy off road.
This is exactly the info I was looking for. If I'm driving on the highway and around town 99% of the time, I don't want to pay for something that's going to actively make my ride worse. Thanks!

you could probably find a truck on a dealers lot that is close to what you want at a lower price, however it would not be your special ordered, one of a kind, built just for Chris, kind of truck.
This is the kind of pep-talk that's gonna have me driving over there this afternoon to place my order. :)
 
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RedlandRanger

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I definitely see the added value in getting the exact truck I want. I'm definitely not one of those people who's got to nickel and dime the dealership down to the bedrock before I'm happy, but I'm also wired to really hate leaving bigger chunks of money on the table. Like, if this OTD price is $1k too high, that'd bug me.

If my calculations are right, if I just took this offer, I'd get exactly the truck I want for just a hair less than 10% of MSRP and within a few bucks of invoice. That seems good to me, but I guess it wouldn't be if everyone else is getting 15% off. :) I've perused the "what are you paying for your Ranger" thread, and it's sort of all over the place. A lot of deals that look like mine, but also some that seem almost impossibly good.

Buying a new vehicle is sort of mystifying on the price side of things, innit?
The price you quoted sounds very similar to X-Plan pricing, which is just over invoice. Some dealers will get close to (or even slightly under) X-Plan pricing on a normal deal.

My opinion is that is a fair deal. If you've been happy with the interactions with the dealer, I'd say go for it. It is possible you might be able to do a little better but as long as you are happy with the deal that is all that really matters. My experience has typically been the low ball dealers are many times the WORST places to buy a vehicle. I don't begrudge a dealer making a reasonable profit on a vehicle, especially when they've been good to me during negotiations.
 
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greypilgrim76

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So I went to the dealership today to do a test-drive and try some negotiating. Still waiting to hear how the negotiations went. (She's checking with the higher-ups about knocking about $800 more off the price.)

I do have a question about the ride of the two Rangers I drove, though. Both were XLs with the SXT package. One was a 4x4 and the other a 4x2. The 4x4 seemed to me to have a smoother ride. The 4x2 wasn't bad, but I felt the bumps a bit more. So here's my question: is there a noticeable difference in the stock suspension of the 4x4 vs. the 4x2, or was I likely just feeling the difference in overall weight between the two vehicles. Put another way, if I threw some sandbags into the bed of the 4x2, could I expect it to ride more or less the same as the 4x4?
 

P. A. Schilke

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So I went to the dealership today to do a test-drive and try some negotiating. Still waiting to hear how the negotiations went. (She's checking with the higher-ups about knocking about $800 more off the price.)

I do have a question about the ride of the two Rangers I drove, though. Both were XLs with the SXT package. One was a 4x4 and the other a 4x2. The 4x4 seemed to me to have a smoother ride. The 4x2 wasn't bad, but I felt the bumps a bit more. So here's my question: is there a noticeable difference in the stock suspension of the 4x4 vs. the 4x2, or was I likely just feeling the difference in overall weight between the two vehicles. Put another way, if I threw some sandbags into the bed of the 4x2, could I expect it to ride more or less the same as the 4x4?
HI Chris,

First....were the tire pressures set to the door label....Likely not which means you need to redrive with correct tire pressures. The difference between a 4x2 and a 4x4 is more than weight in the pickup box. It is about an entirely different front suspension, a transfer case on the back of the transmission and two driveshafts vs only a rear two piece driveshaft. Shock tuning and spring rates differ too. So my recommendation is to get the tires set correctly and go from there. If you do not need 4x4 until the snow, you might be spending a bit too much for the capability. Usually the 4x4 is a stiffer ride, so a pit of puzzlement on my part.

Good luck with your negotiations.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 
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greypilgrim76

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HI Chris,

First....were the tire pressures set to the door label....Likely not which means you need to redrive with correct tire pressures. The difference between a 4x2 and a 4x4 is more than weight in the pickup box. It is about an entirely different front suspension, a transfer case on the back of the transmission and two driveshafts vs only a rear two piece driveshaft. Shock tuning and spring rates differ too. So my recommendation is to get the tires set correctly and go from there. If you do not need 4x4 until the snow, you might be spending a bit too much for the capability. Usually the 4x4 is a stiffer ride, so a pit of puzzlement on my part.

Good luck with your negotiations.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
Thanks for the reply, Phil. I thought I'd read somewhere that the 4x2 should be the smoother ride, so I was a bit puzzled, too, but your tire pressure explanation makes sense, and I definitely didn't think to check that before driving.

And yeah, the only use I'd have for 4x4 is maybe a snowstorm or two during winter, so it's not really worth the extra cash to me, especially with the locking rear differential option on the 4x2 is only $420.

I have a suspicion that I'll probably buy the truck whether they come off the price or not, but I figured I should at least try. :) The real conundrum for me is that I can either order the exact truck I want and wait 3+ months, or have the salesperson try to make a trade with another dealership that has the same truck, except in Cactus Gray and with the upgraded 301a package. Only a $940 difference, since the 110V outlet and rear warning system I was gonna pay for a la carte are included. Decisions, decisions...
 

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Based on these needs and some convenience preferences, here’s the Ranger I want:

2021 XLT SuperCrew 4x2
Trailer Tow Package
Reverse Sensing System
Electronic-Locking Rear Differential
110V AC Power Outlet
Looks like a very practical build. Very similar to what I was looking for before I found mine. Since you're already looking getting some of your "wants" taken care of after-market, I do want to point out that you could save some cash by forgoing the trailer tow package and instead adding an aftermarket receiver and wiring harness. I do think the factor receiver looks a little better than than the Curt and Drawtite options, but I was able to get the Drawtite for a little over $100 and install it in my driveway.
I’ve been in conversation with a salesperson at our local Ford dealership who’s been quite helpful, and she and I have mostly reached the conclusion that ordering a Ranger is the best way to get what I’m looking for and not pay for things I’m not.
She could be right. One thing that I found when looking for mine is that the stand-alone rear locker is somewhat of a unicorn in Indiana. You can probably find a "better deal" by finding a nice dealer stock vehicle that they're having trouble getting rid of, but you'll surely have to make some compromises on the options, especially with such limited stock of trucks with the rear locker option
I’m not in any huge hurry, so the 3-month (or more, depending on chip availability) wait estimate’s not a problem, and she says that I can lock in the current incentive ($1750 rebate) and add any incentives that pop up before it arrives.
This is the part that worries me about your deal. Maybe people who special-ordered a truck can chime in with their experience, but for factory rebates I think you get whatever is Ford is offering when you formally buy your vehicle (so when you sign the papers after it arrives). I'm certain that you will not be able to double-dip by taking the current incentive and adding on whatever comes up later.
-Does anyone know if Ford will add the rearview mirror upgrade without the 301 package?
Pretty sure they won't.
-If you think there is room for negotiation, do you think it’d be better to ask for further discount or some sort of additional equipment at this price? (Remote start, for example.)
You might be able to get them to discount additional equipment. Before I agreed on a price for mine (which I was buying via X-plan, so the dealership was limited on how they could sweeten the deal), they offered me a bed extender at half price. My guess is that would have meant they would have been selling it to me at about their cost, so it wasn't really costing them anything to add this as an incentive. Maybe you can similarly negotiate in some of these extras that you're planning on adding anyway?
 

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HI Chris,

First....were the tire pressures set to the door label....Likely not which means you need to redrive with correct tire pressures. The difference between a 4x2 and a 4x4 is more than weight in the pickup box. It is about an entirely different front suspension, a transfer case on the back of the transmission and two driveshafts vs only a rear two piece driveshaft. Shock tuning and spring rates differ too. So my recommendation is to get the tires set correctly and go from there. If you do not need 4x4 until the snow, you might be spending a bit too much for the capability. Usually the 4x4 is a stiffer ride, so a pit of puzzlement on my part.

Good luck with your negotiations.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
Phil's right Chris. all kinds of stories on the forum about over inflated tires from the dealerships. Most seem to be in the 40-45lb range, way over the recommended. If the trucks you compared didn't have properly inflated tires, or one did and the other didn't, your comparison rides mean very little.

Just another important fact I've learned on this forum. :thumbsup:

Either way, this sounds like a pretty decent deal. Good luck!
 
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greypilgrim76

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Looks like a very practical build. Very similar to what I was looking for before I found mine. Since you're already looking getting some of your "wants" taken care of after-market, I do want to point out that you could save some cash by forgoing the trailer tow package and instead adding an aftermarket receiver and wiring harness. I do think the factor receiver looks a little better than than the Curt and Drawtite options, but I was able to get the Drawtite for a little over $100 and install it in my driveway.
I'll check into this. I know my way around under a hood, for the most part, but I'm a bit more skeptical about installing something that could fail pretty catastrophically if I don't do it right. That said, I've thought a lot of things were too complicated until I tried them, so thanks for the suggestion!

She could be right. One thing that I found when looking for mine is that the stand-alone rear locker is somewhat of a unicorn in Indiana. You can probably find a "better deal" by finding a nice dealer stock vehicle that they're having trouble getting rid of, but you'll surely have to make some compromises on the options, especially with such limited stock of trucks with the rear locker option.
Glad to hear there's another Hoosier who's had to look for this setup. I'd love to have the 4x4, of course, but there's really no reason for me to, especially at that price point. If I end up snagging a PCO, though, I might just upgrade to those heated seats. :)

This is the part that worries me about your deal. Maybe people who special-ordered a truck can chime in with their experience, but for factory rebates I think you get whatever is Ford is offering when you formally buy your vehicle (so when you sign the papers after it arrives). I'm certain that you will not be able to double-dip by taking the current incentive and adding on whatever comes up later.

Pretty sure they won't.
Thanks for the caution. I'd definitely like to hear other people's thoughts on this, because I've been proceeding under the assumption that part was kind of a done deal if I proceed. Has anyone else had any trouble getting them to "lock in" an incentive at the time of order and keep it when the truck's delivered?

You might be able to get them to discount additional equipment. Before I agreed on a price for mine (which I was buying via X-plan, so the dealership was limited on how they could sweeten the deal), they offered me a bed extender at half price. My guess is that would have meant they would have been selling it to me at about their cost, so it wasn't really costing them anything to add this as an incentive. Maybe you can similarly negotiate in some of these extras that you're planning on adding anyway?
I figure the hill I can die on is asking for free remote start. :)
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