BF Goodrich to Bridgestone Duelers.....night and day

llm.flyfisher

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Actually a heavier tire does absolutely affect mileage negatively. I have gone to 37s on my 2006 dodge cummins and seen the mileage drop from around 14 mpg to under 10 mpg. Of course this came with a full Carli 3" suspension as well. Then dropped back to 35s, and then back to 275-60-17s. Mileage came right back to just a little over 14 mpg. I was running the same BBi Stage 1 injectors and twin Garrett ball bearing water cooled turbos with tow tune so all this stayed exactly the same. Heavy bigger tires kill fuel mileage due to much greater rolling resistance. No getting around physics.
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DavidR

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Hey guys, I just had my oil changed the 1st of February with less than 3000 on the clock and the mpg went from 17.3 city to 19,3 city.
I have always heard for many years that oil changes can increase the mpgs but I believe this is the first time I have experience it.
After oil changes I also check the stick to make sure the tech did not overfill , I have had some put 1 quart or more extra into the pan, and then I make them dump it out to read at the full mark not past it, I don't want to have seals going out because the tech doesn't think it matters. It may take years for overfilling to blow the seals but by then the warranty is up and I or the next owner will have to foot the bill for the repair that is needed.
It sounds like you were changing the "break-in" oil, which might have helped make a difference. I say "might" because, like almost everything else in the forum, the concept of break-in is controversial and has changed over the years, and this thread probably isn't the right place for a debate about it.

However, even beyond that, I think the effect is real depending on the vehicle. The first time I noticed it in any measurable way was with our 2012 Honda Insight. Most aspects of the Insight are designed around fuel efficiency, and it gets 45/50 MGP (city/hwy). As a result, my thinking is that the higher the efficiency, the more sensitive the fuel economy will be to small changes in friction and such. On the insight, I even have small but measurable changes in fuel economy with trans oil changes, even though I tend to change it ahead of the schedule in the manual.
 

levimac`

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It sounds like you were changing the "break-in" oil, which might have helped make a difference. I say "might" because, like almost everything else in the forum, the concept of break-in is controversial and has changed over the years, and this thread probably isn't the right place for a debate about it.

However, even beyond that, I think the effect is real depending on the vehicle. The first time I noticed it in any measurable way was with our 2012 Honda Insight. Most aspects of the Insight are designed around fuel efficiency, and it gets 45/50 MGP (city/hwy). As a result, my thinking is that the higher the efficiency, the more sensitive the fuel economy will be to small changes in friction and such. On the insight, I even have small but measurable changes in fuel economy with trans oil changes, even though I tend to change it ahead of the schedule in the manual.
I changed so I wouldn't lose the changes I purchased for 3 years that if you don't use them you lose them , plus it seemed to be a little dirty. The mpgs were a little low to my mind so to check out the idea that mpg can increase after a change which has been some of the many ideas about mpg drops and increase's for the last 50 odd years,;at least in my circle of friends, mechanics and techs ;may be true or just bs going around as the rumor mill.
Have a good day.
 

SaberRanger

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I have the BFG AT's. Last night in the rain I was going around a corner and hit the gas a little harder, I didn't floor it or anything, I stared sliding sideways. Luckily the truck and I corrected but now I am not to happy with the BFG tires. I am going to get them through the summer then swap them out for something else. Time to start researching tires, I hate buying tires especially for a truck.
 

levimac`

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I have the BFG AT's. Last night in the rain I was going around a corner and hit the gas a little harder, I didn't floor it or anything, I stared sliding sideways. Luckily the truck and I corrected but now I am not to happy with the BFG tires. I am going to get them through the summer then swap them out for something else. Time to start researching tires, I hate buying tires especially for a truck.
You could try siping them at Les Schwab or another tire store it costs a little more for used tires to do so but it may help, I always sipe all my tires I buy, but that's me.
I do think it does help with traction on snow, ice and rain, you may go to a store and ask them then do some research as well it would be cheaper to do that instead of new tires.
Just my thoughts.
Have a good and wonderful day.

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RedlandRanger

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You could try siping them at Les Schwab or another tire store it costs a little more for used tires to do so but it may help, I always sipe all my tires I buy, but that's me.
I do think it does help with traction on snow, ice and rain, you may go to a store and ask them then do some research as well it would be cheaper to do that instead of new tires.
Just my thoughts.
Have a good and wonderful day.

1024191317.jpg
I was told by someone who used to work at Les Schwab for quite a few years that siping is waste of money for "good" tires. Higher end tire treads are carefully engineered and siping will offer no benefits. Cheaper/lower end tires may benefit from siping as they don't have the same level of engineering on the tread patterns. Whether it is true or not I can't be sure, but I trusted his judgement.
 

levimac`

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I was told by someone who used to work at Les Schwab for quite a few years that siping is waste of money for "good" tires. Higher end tire treads are carefully engineered and siping will offer no benefits. Cheaper/lower end tires may benefit from siping as they don't have the same level of engineering on the tread patterns. Whether it is true or not I can't be sure, but I trusted his judgement.
To each His own.
I did the first sipe on tires way back in 1980 and those tires lasted for years and what caused them to fail was age and cracking side walls and that was the Les Schwab store in Lagrande Oregon it was well into the late 90's before had to change them, Like I said to each His own.
Good day
 
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RedlandRanger

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To each His own.
I did the first sipe on tires way back in 1980 and those tires lasted for years and what caused them to fail was age and cracking side walls and that was the Les Schwab store in Lagrande Oregon it was well into the late 90's before had to change them, Like I said to each His own.
Good day
My understanding of the theory of siping is that it doesn't have any effect on the wear of the tires, or sidewall or longenvity of the tires - my understanding is that siping is supposed to improve traction, especially in wet weather - it is supposed to help channel more water away. Like I said, I have no proof either way, but I did trust his judgement.
 

P. A. Schilke

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My understanding of the theory of siping is that it doesn't have any effect on the wear of the tires, or sidewall or longenvity of the tires - my understanding is that siping is supposed to improve traction, especially in wet weather - it is supposed to help channel more water away. Like I said, I have no proof either way, but I did trust his judgement.
Hi Rob,

What is snipe? I have no idea of that this is. I do know that our short course racers had grooving tools and always took the OEM tires and cut additional grooves in the tread pattern. The reason was bite in the mud and dirt of the short course racing as it is not like desert racing where it is for the most part...straight line and short course is all about the turns. The BFG tire support workers grooved tires day in and day out for our teams as BFG was an associate sponsor, but the top teams had their own ideas of how to make the tires work during the race...

I also learned that if you do not know what you are doing, you can make a good off road tire worse...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 

RedlandRanger

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Hi Rob,

What is snipe? I have no idea of that this is. I do know that our short course racers had grooving tools and always took the OEM tires and cut additional grooves in the tread pattern. The reason was bite in the mud and dirt of the short course racing as it is not like desert racing where it is for the most part...straight line and short course is all about the turns. The BFG tire support workers grooved tires day in and day out for our teams as BFG was an associate sponsor, but the top teams had their own ideas of how to make the tires work during the race...

I also learned that if you do not know what you are doing, you can make a good off road tire worse...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
Siping is putting little cuts in the tire. Here is the page from Les Schwab Tire Centers that talks about it:

https://www.lesschwab.com/article/performance-tire-siping.html

And an interesting article (I just found it when googling it), that talks about why you SHOULDN'T sipe your tires:

https://jalopnik.com/why-aftermarket-siping-on-your-new-tires-is-bullshit-1823804912\

It reminds me of the "how often should you change your oil" arguments..... :)
 

levimac`

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My understanding of the theory of siping is that it doesn't have any effect on the wear of the tires, or sidewall or longenvity of the tires - my understanding is that siping is supposed to improve traction, especially in wet weather - it is supposed to help channel more water away. Like I said, I have no proof either way, but I did trust his judgement.
That is true it does effect traction according to Schwabby and as my tires lasted so long then it could effect longevity as well in my individual case anyway, like I said to each his own.
Others also say it damages the tire and causes them to wear out sooner that is also possible, just not in my experience of tire buying for decades.
 

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F150 5.0 Turbo badge really? No one's going to flame this?
:crackup: I was waiting for someone to be typical internet and flame the crap out of it, but after 3 pages and nothing. Thats impressive if you ask me., its pretty typical mods for the demographic though. Like the saying goes, to each their own :thumbsup:
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Still a nice truck
 
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outdoorphotog

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I had the BFGoodrich AT KO2 for 52k miles on my last work truck, took them in the rocks, dirt, mud, snow, steep grades uphill in mud, steep grades downhill in mud, they were very solid tires from my experience. The utility box did have about 2,500 lbs in tools which i am sure helped with traction.
 
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Update
After talking with my local tire shop here in Phuket, I mentioned to him that I was thinking about changing my wheel size to a 20 inch wheel with some 305/55/r20 rubber. He said that the cost to have 305 tires on my truck was going to ne in the 3 to 5k range and said that the biggest he would recommend would be the 285/55/r20 GF Goodrich tires. When I mentioned to him about the issues that I have had in the past with the BF goodrich he said that many of his customers use them and they all love them. He then had a look under my truck to see what lift kit I had used and as soon as he saw the 1 inch blocks he said that the problem with me stopping with the BF Goodrich tires was not the tires but the cheap and nasty lift kit...............anyway to cut a long story short my truck is going in on tuesday to get a set of Pro Fender OEM 2.5 Shocks.............not cheap ~$2k but ive been down the cheap and nasty route before and we all know where that got me.
51156333_339439193568645_9180315067021787136_n.jpg

After these are installed I will get the 285/55/r20 BF Goodrich tires or the same size Cooper MaXX tires
Pictures to follow

Neil
 

LightingBlue

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I added the BFG to my truck the same day the truck was delivered, they looked amazing on my truck but right off the get go they didn't feel great when trying to stop, two weeks later I ran into the back of another truck doing 40 MPH in the wet. After that I kept using them for about another 6 months until I had another scare at a traffic light. I spoke with the tire shop where I bought the BFG and they recommended the Duelers.........that was about 3 months ago and all I can is that they are night and day with regards to both stopping and handling.
Neil

  • What brake upgrades have you done as a result of these wheel size/weight increases?
  • What was the weight of the stock wheel/tire combo (per wheel)?
  • What is the weight of your new wheel/tire combo (per wheel)?

A lot of what you're talking about sounds like a drastic increase in unsprung weight with zero improvement to your brake system to handle what is essentially hauling around a LOT of weight at all times.

Just going from stock tires up to a 20" tire will be an extra 13 lbs each, plus wheel weight. Then add rotational mass and inertia and you've got yourself a recipe for running into things (as you did and almost did again)
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