Oil Catch Can. Yes or No?

[Peterzo]

It appears that true science is replaced by junk science so somebody can make money. How is muck measured? By particles per minute or particles per mile?

I assume you are pointing this comment towards my post?
Will let your education on true science back your dissertation.
No I did not do a ppm test on the "muck" I can have that done for you, I have the ability available. But prior posts with Blackstone published results do back up the science end, have you actually analyzed any of those posts?
Some of us do talk from a background that can help, should ask that first before you publish a junk science post....

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[mk842766]

I assume you are pointing this comment towards my post?
Will let your education on true science back your dissertation.
No I did not do a ppm test on the "muck" I can have that done for you, I have the ability available. But prior posts with Blackstone published results do back up the science end, have you actually analyzed any of those posts?
Some of us do talk from a background that can help, should ask that first before you publish a junk science post....

So, may I ask, since I am NOT a mechanical engineer....is there any proven science that says a catch can is necessary?? I would be interested in any information as to the necessity of a catch can, since I've never had either a direct injection engine, nor a turbo charged one. TIA

 

[Peterzo]

So, may I ask, since I am NOT a mechanical engineer....is there any proven science that says a catch can is necessary?? I would be interested in any information as to the necessity of a catch can, since I've never had either a direct injection engine, nor a turbo charged one. TIA

Feel free ask away,
Catch cans have been out in circulation for years (like 40 plus). So some findings that I have seen.
Back in 80's I worked with Caterpillar on the development of the power stroke engine for International, man talk about an engine with blow by. The only way we could control detonation on that unit under testing was, guess what, a puke can on the the ccv system. We ran them on the 3500 series industrial engines, Hell even Dodge was, from the manufacturer end (the 1st & 2nd Gen Cummins pickups had factory catch cans).
Same goes with modern cars, especially high compression and turbos, the blow by from the ccv (crankcase ventilation) raises all kinds of issues, build up on the back sides of the valves (gases have a tendency to attract and stick to hot metals) and of course detonation (or pre ignition).
That is only a couple of the up front issues. I can write a small book for you guys if you like, but the point was to the OP 'catch can or no catch can', I have always been a believer.
Next time I drain mine, I will send it out to the lab and have it broke down, let's really see what is in the "muck".
Have a great holiday, off to eat some ham

 

[Andrew]

I’m still confused if it’s worth it or not. Interestingly, Ford Performance does make a catch can for the Mustang eco boost. So there’s possible merit there....wonder if they will do one for the Ranger.

 

[k1w1t1m]

There's reasons Ford didn't include a catch can other than the few bucks it may cost or save them. At first glance it may seem like a cheap addition but is it really?
How fast is it going to fill up? How big does it have to be? Now we have to find real estate to place it. What happens when it fills up? Now sensors have to be added and tied into the PCM. Now owners, techs, the high school kid at the local ***** lube place have to be educated.
Most of us on the forum will be enthusiasts or those that have come here to solve or to mouth off about a problem. There are a far greater number of Ranger owners out there that will never open the hood. In this age everything is being made to be untouched or touched less regardless of whether we think that is right or wrong.
Look at how far we've come, when I had my first cars they required weekly attention, sometimes attention was required daily whether it was a necessity or just because I wanted to tweak something. Checking fluid levels was weekly at a minimum. Now the hood is lifted by the majority of owners rarely and is likely only done when a "check light" comes on and even then it is more likely to be opened by a Technician.

Sorry that was a little off topic. I'm on the fence regarding catch cans.

 

[HenryMac]

your are right about about a lot of muck for sure!but lets say ford in all their wisdom cheated and uses this muck to wash the valve ? (I am not even close to being a mechanic but the fuel amount they are catching is suspect no?)

You're right if the can is catching 90% fuel and 10% oil (see Peterzo's post above). Having that fuel wash over the valves would have been a good thing. But it didn't... it's in the catch can.

 

[RCMUSTANG]

Again, where is everyone getting that the liquid aside from the oil is fuel? Mine does not smell like fuel and only started accumulating when it got colder (IE condensation).

 

[DavidR]

I'm still not convinced that on our Rangers the cans are a good thing. Most of the photo's I've seen of what the cans are catching is fuel. ...

It varies a lot. In my own case, during the summer, the cans accumulated only oil, from both the PCV and turbo inlet sides. The more volatile stuff like fuel and water never condensed out. Now that we're part-way through winter, I emptied the cans again (I use a separate one for the turbo inlet side), and this time there was quite a bit of condensation on both sides along with the oil. This is in northern CA. Depending on where you live, it can probably vary from almost always catching some condensation to almost never catching any. Either way, the oil is there too, but it can sometimes be dominated by the condensation.

 

[HenryMac]

It varies a lot. In my own case, during the summer, the cans accumulated only oil, from both the PCV and turbo inlet sides. The more volatile stuff like fuel and water never condensed out. Now that we're part-way through winter, I emptied the cans again (I use a separate one for the turbo inlet side), and this time there was quite a bit of condensation on both sides along with the oil. This is in northern CA. Depending on where you live, it can probably vary from almost always catching some condensation to almost never catching any. Either way, the oil is there too, but it can sometimes be dominated by the condensation.

In your 2019 Ranger?

 

[Doc]

I'm still not convinced that on our Rangers the cans are a good thing. Most of the photo's I've seen of what the cans are catching is fuel. That fuel when piped back into the intake of the engine will wash the back of the intake valves and help remove any carbon deposits.

Without a side by side comparison of (2) motors running in the same scenario, one with a catch can, one without, we'll never really know if the catch can helps the carbon issues... hurts the carbon issues... or does nothing at all.

You'd think one of the companies selling them would perform such a test.... if in fact they are as good as what they are advertised to be.

You will catch a lot if the rings were not seated properly..
Regards

 

[DavidR]

In your 2019 Ranger?

Yes. We took delivery in early July and I had the first catch can installed on the PCV side by sometime in August, so this is the first time I've drained them in colder weather.

Also, I agree with @RCMUSTANG that the condensation does not contain very much fuel. I didn't pick it apart in detail, but I did take a quick look and the vast majority of the stuff that isn't oil seems to be water. Again, this is in N. CA where our temps are mostly between the mid 20's to mid 60's where we do the most driving. It may be that in much colder climates you can also get significant fuel condensing, probably also depending on where you've mounted the catch can. I think there might be a fair amount of regional variation to this.

I agree with people who say that it's probably good to have the fuel and water vapor returned to the intake, and in the summer that seems to be what is happening, at least here, but it's not possible to have that happen all of the time in most areas.

I also agree that with no catch can, the stock PCV system probably doesn't return actual liquid water or fuel to the intake manifold. Without the loop through the catch can, the return gasses probably never get cool enough to have those things condense out even in winter.

 

[HenryMac]

Yes. We took delivery in early July and I had the first catch can installed on the PCV side by sometime in August, so this is the first time I've drained them in colder weather.

Also, I agree with @RCMUSTANG that the condensation does not contain very much fuel. I didn't pick it apart in detail, but I did take a quick look and the vast majority of the stuff that isn't oil seems to be water. Again, this is in N. CA where our temps are mostly between the mid 20's to mid 60's where we do the most driving. It may be that in much colder climates you can also get significant fuel condensing, probably also depending on where you've mounted the catch can. I think there might be a fair amount of regional variation to this.

I agree with people who say that it's probably a net positive to have the fuel and water vapor returned to the intake, and in the summer that seems to be what is happening, at least here, but it's not possible to have that happen all of the time in most areas.

I also agree that with no catch can, the stock PCV system probably doesn't return actual liquid water or fuel to the intake manifold. Without the loop through the catch can, the return gasses probably never get cool enough to have those things condense out even in winter.

Thanks, much appreciated. How often do you need to "dump" the cans... and which side seems to collect the most liquids?

 

[RCMUSTANG]

Thanks, much appreciated. How often do you need to "dump" the cans... and which side seems to collect the most liquids?

Before colder weather several thousand miles. Colder weather every few hundred.

 

[DavidR]

Thanks, much appreciated. How often do you need to "dump" the cans... and which side seems to collect the most liquids?

It seems like I will definitely need to empty them more in the winter, LOL. I'd say the amount of oil+condensation is similar in both, but for any individual it might depend on how much of the time the turbine is spun up enough to pull crankcase gasses. We do a lot of driving over mountain passes and sometimes have the pop-up camper on so for us it's probably running a fair amount.

The can on the turbo inlet side is smaller, and it was a bit over half full after about ~2000 mi. when I emptied it a few days ago, the bulk of it being water condensation. It was higher than I would like to see it, so I'll probably stick to a 1000-1500 mi. schedule in the winter. Once it warms up in the spring, unless we're doing a cross-country trip or something, I can probably wait until late summer or fall to check it since it accumulates almost exclusively oil during the summer.

 

[DavidR]

Definitely post the results if you have it analyzed I'm not sure I'll go to that much trouble myself, but maybe next time I drain them I'll at least make sure I get all of it out into a sealed container (so the fuel portion doesn't evaporate away) and let it settle out into layers to see what it looks like.

Have not been driving the Ranger much lately, but the last post of mine was as I posted, a bit of oil and a lot of fuel. Doing the paper towel test as stated (if you all don't know that one, can fill ya in) poured it through three heavy shop towels (paper) and it soaked right in fast (typically water will run off the towel, eventually soaking in) for shits and giggles put a match to the towel, it lit and burned up in seconds, Hmm, don't remember condensate being flammable?

Let me get a few hundred miles on her and hopefully get a get 6 or so ounces to send to the lab, will publish results....

As for fuel washing the valves, (from other posts), un-burned fuel vapors and oil vapors (remember gasoline is oil based), being introduced back into the intake manifold through the CCV system, building up carbon deposits on the top side of the intake valves, "it does not wash anything". The deposits restrict airflow, performance and can cause drive-ability problems (hesitation, stumbling, misfire ie: detonation).

Not trying to upset anyone's apple cart here, just stating facts. Maybe a few of us do have some issues to address with Ford?

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