Rivian or Ranger dilemma

[OCL]

The problem with EVs is it's greatly diminished endurance when towing...I don't doubt it can tow 11K but for how far?

TFL Truck did a towing test of a Tesla Model X. It can tow. Just not very far. No different than an ICE powered truck, except electric vehicles can't just pull in to any gas station to top up. You need to plan your recharge stops A LOT more carefully. This is the single biggest reason electric vehicles haven't taken over. The infrastructure just isn't there yet. Plus, topping up your energy takes a whole lot longer. 15-20 minutes from 25% residual power, but that depends on battery size. Larger batteries take a lot longer to charge up.

In today's world, if you want better fuel efficiency, a hybrid is the way to go.

Electric vehicle fan boys always like to raise the environmental banner as them helping to save the environment. But truth be told, the amount of carbon emissions to build that electric car is much greater than an equivalent ICE vehicle. And if everyone switched to electric cars, the energy needed to sustain that will come from...wait for it....coal fired plants. Not solar, not wind, not nuclear. Good old fashioned COAL. The same Coal the Green centric folks want to shut down.

If we really want clean burning energy, nuclear power combined with a fully electrified grid capable of supporting the electricity needs of all those electric vehicles is the ticket. I don't see nuclear power plants being built anywhere. Nor do I see even moderate numbers of gas stations implementing the charging stations for electric cars either. Not even in Electric car crazy Southern California.

Sponsored

 

[OCL]

And like the Ranger, it still won't fit in the garage.

It sure as hell fits with room to spare.

Untitled by rogue_biker, on Flickr

 

[slowmachine]

Charging is the big thing with Lithium Ion batteries of this size/capacity. People think you can just plug it in in any outlet. If you do not charge these properly at the correct input voltage your going to have issues.

No EV that I’m aware of relies on an external charge controller to provide the proper current to the battery. Charge control is built into the car. There are SAE and international standards for charging equipment. The car maker decides which types and levels of charging they will support.

I’m all in favor of electric vehicles just don’t think we’re anywhere near a complete switch over. Our power grid cannot handle it.

Nobody told Thomas Edison or Alexander Graham Bell that their inventions were useless due to the lack of widespread wire networks. Nobody told Henry Ford that horseless carriages were useless due to the lack of smooth roads. Infrastructure grows to meet the demand. Would anyone really spend trillions of dollars to build an electric charging network just in case somebody wants to plug something into it some time in the future? The infrastructure will grow to meet the demand.

 

[Chappy]

It sure as hell fits with room to spare.

Untitled by rogue_biker, on Flickr

No way, this is Photoshopped.

 

[Chris M]

I'm jealous of his "room to spare"!

 

[Motorpsychology]

This reminds me of back when Ford released the new body style 1997 F-150 . People thought it didn't look as tough . Ford even put a few new style bodies on the previous models running gear and had focus groups rate the towing characteristics compared to the previous models . A high percentage said the new truck did not tow nearly as well even though nothing was different except the body .

People just had preconceived opinions about the new rounded body of the new truck . That's the main reason we have the big squared off trucks that we have today .

The same phenomenon happened back in 1989. That year, GM's Geo Prizm debuted. and were sold through Chevrolet dealers. GM conducted clinics to gauge interest in the car alongside a Toyota Corolla. The Prizm was rated inferior to the Corolla in several categories including noisy engine, poor drivability, fit & finish, size. Other comments predictably were Japanese cars are better than American made cars and got better milage.

Both had identical mechanicals and were made in the same plant, (NUMMI, Fremont, CA now Tesla) on the same assembly line by the same people.

 

[SemperVee]

I just took delivery of our NEW full sized Bronco to add to the growing FORD garaged stable but bought the Rivian Stock! Smile.

 

[Motorpsychology]

EV's will first become common in the daily delivery industry. Transportation concerns that drive a known distance with average to light payloads, and return to a depot to recharge at the end of one or two shifts. I think this is where we will see autonomous vehicles take hold first as well.

 

[OCL]

The same phenomenon happened back in 1989. That year, GM's Geo Prizm debuted. and were sold through Chevrolet dealers. GM conducted clinics to gauge interest in the car alongside a Toyota Corolla. The Prizm was rated inferior to the Corolla in several categories including noisy engine, poor drivability, fit & finish, size. Other comments predictably were Japanese cars are better than American made cars and got better milage.

Both had identical mechanicals and were made in the same plant, (NUMMI, Fremont, CA now Tesla) on the same assembly line by the same people.

In GM's case, it was deserved. Their cars were cheaply made and nowhere near as reliable as the Japanese brands back in those days. The 1980's and well into the 2000's is where Japan, Inc. build a reputation for itself here in the US. And they deserve it. They gave us quality cars and still do. The most reliable brands in 2021 is dominated by Japanese cars. Mazda, Lexus, Toyota round out the top three. Ok Buick is #4 beating out Honda in 5th place. But look at historical records, Lexus/Toyota always in top spot. And yes not all Toyota's are built in Japan, many are built in the US. Nationality has nothing to do with it. Only Corporate culture. GM culture and Ford as well isn't known for having this culture and determination to provide quality and reliability until only the last 15 years. Prior to that, they banked on Americans buying American cars to sell. GM was the worst offender.

 

[Jason B]

Nobody told Thomas Edison or Alexander Graham Bell that their inventions were useless due to the lack of widespread wire networks. Nobody told Henry Ford that horseless carriages were useless due to the lack of smooth roads. Infrastructure grows to meet the demand. Would anyone really spend trillions of dollars to build an electric charging network just in case somebody wants to plug something into it some time in the future? The infrastructure will grow to meet the demand.

Yes, The US Government. Maybe not 2 trillion but big bucks for sure. Remember all the hoop-la
about E85 ethanol to replace gasoline? In the many years since I have never seen a station offer the stuff.

 

[landiscarrier]

No EV that I’m aware of relies on an external charge controller to provide the proper current to the battery. Charge control is built into the car. There are SAE and international standards for charging equipment. The car maker decides which types and levels of charging they will support.


Nobody told Thomas Edison or Alexander Graham Bell that their inventions were useless due to the lack of widespread wire networks. Nobody told Henry Ford that horseless carriages were useless due to the lack of smooth roads. Infrastructure grows to meet the demand. Would anyone really spend trillions of dollars to build an electric charging network just in case somebody wants to plug something into it some time in the future? The infrastructure will grow to meet the demand.

That's partially true....Most electric vehicles should be plugged into 240 volt NEMA 14-50 outlet on a 50amp breaker.....which most people currently do not have standard in their homes. When it come to a 20K battery I'd rather charge it the best and most effective way possible.

 

[slowmachine]

Yes, The US Government. Maybe not 2 trillion but big bucks for sure. Remember all the hoop-la
about E85 ethanol to replace gasoline? In the many years since I have never seen a station offer the stuff.

Agreed. And for those who think Government “priming the pump” is inappropriate, look at the intercontinental railroad and interstate highway system for strategic success stories.

 

[DeathRanger]

That's partially true....Most electric vehicles should be plugged into 240 volt NEMA 14-50 outlet on a 50amp breaker.....which most people currently do not have standard in their homes. When it come to a 20K battery I'd rather charge it the best and most effective way possible.

The average american drives 39 miles a day. using a standard 120 outlet can yield up to 40 miles charge in 8 hours while you sleep. Every home I've lived in has had a 240v dryer outlet. If a home has this, they can definitely support EV charging.

Also technically the best charging for batteries is slower charging and keeping the battery around 50% when not needed. Batteries degrade when charged fast, exposed to extreme hot/cold and left at 100% or 0% for long periods.

 

[Msfitoy]

I'm jealous of his "room to spare"!

I designed my house from ground up...garage space is not counted as living footage so essentially "free"...so I happened to have almost four car space left in one corner of the house...?

 

[slowmachine]

The average american drives 39 miles a day. using a standard 120 outlet can yield up to 40 miles charge in 8 hours while you sleep. Every home I've lived in has had a 240v dryer outlet. If a home has this, they can definitely support EV charging.

Also technically the best charging for batteries is slower charging and keeping the battery around 50% when not needed. Batteries degrade when charged fast, exposed to extreme hot/cold and left at 100% or 0% for long periods.

For some comparison of charging methods, my 2021 Prius Prime PHEV has an 8.8 kWh lithium ion battery pack. I charge it from a standard 120V outlet in 5 hours, 40 minutes. That gives me about 35 miles of range in warm weather. Upgrading to a 240V charger would reduce the charging time by about half. The built-in charge controller, under the rear seat, limits input to 16 amps at 240V. The battery, however can withstand a much higher charging rate than the 240V charger. The car has a self-charging mode, where the traction battery is charged directly from the engine-driven generator. In this mode, the battery will charge from empty to full in about 30 minutes, about five times faster than from the 240V external source. I think that some Tesla models can use all of an 80A, 240V connection without any adverse effects on the battery, but most stick with the 50A dryer outlet. Bottom line: The battery technology is already capable of using any standard residential electrical feed, with a lot of headroom.

Sponsored